CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Midnight said:

If I see the approaching boat speed up I just slow to a stop - life's too short.

 

 

This suits both of us, and prolly gets both of us through the bridge quicker than if we pissed about slowing down and being polite.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Midnight said:

If I see the approaching boat speed up I just slow to a stop - life's too short.

Me too,

But often they slow, so I speed up. 
I look to see how much water they are pushing. 
And either ease off or speed up. 
 

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

I suspect having loose mooring lines almost at right-angles to the bank and no spring lines is by far the biggest reason their boats get thrown about, going by the number I've seen moored like that -- and seen moving about lots even when I pass them slowly...

Correct. And typically these boaters are not actually boaters, they have bought something to give them “cheap accommodation with a nice view” and rather resent any moving boats, which is not surprising considering how much a boat moored like that will thrash about when a boat passes at 0.5mph

Edited July 28, 2022 by nicknorman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Correct. And typically these boaters are not actually boaters, they have bought something to give them “cheap accommodation with a nice view” and rather event any moving boats, which is not surprising considering how much a boat moored like that will thrash about when a boat passes at 0.5mph

😂😂

brilliant

that comment is so full of shit it’s hard to believe you just wrote it!

 

for someone themselves coming down on a cheap holiday,

 

enjoy the view 😃

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

😂😂

brilliant

that comment is so full of shit it’s hard to believe you just wrote it!

 

for someone themselves coming down on a cheap holiday,

 

enjoy the view 😃

I re-read it. Nope, I can’t find any shit. I even tried smelling it.

 

Rather than just issuing insults, which is the lazy option, why not actually say where you disagree and offer your own opinion about boats badly moored? Or would that be too tiring for you?

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Paul C said:

But cuthound raises an interesting point about his bottom scraping.

 

Maybe he has got worms ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I re-read it. Nope, I can’t find any shit. I even tried smelling it.

 

Rather than just issuing insults, which is the lazy option, why not actually say where you disagree and offer your own opinion about boats badly moored? Or would that be too tiring for you?

No no no,

you don’t do that,

I haven’t insulted you.

 

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

No no no,

you don’t do that,

I haven’t insulted you.

 

I didn’t say you did, I said you issued insults. They were aimed at my post, not me, although the difference in most people’s eyes is marginal. Anyway you are avoiding actually stating an alternative view. Why is that?

[frangar]

25 minutes ago, Goliath said:

😂😂

brilliant

that comment is so full of shit it’s hard to believe you just wrote it!

 

for someone themselves coming down on a cheap holiday,

 

enjoy the view 😃

Some don’t take well to criticism it seems….especially those with “superior knowledge”….🙄

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I didn’t say you did, I said you issued insults. They were aimed at my post, not me, although the difference in most people’s eyes is marginal. Anyway you are avoiding actually stating an alternative view. Why is that?

Ok 

I see a certain irony with your idea that people have bought cheap accommodation for a view,

when in turn you yourself have done exactly that,

you are holidaying after all.

 

It seems whenever you go boating you find something to whinge about.

Either boat and enjoy,

or do something else and leave the actual boaters in peace

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Ok 

I see a certain irony with your idea that people have bought cheap accommodation for a view,

when in turn you yourself have done exactly that,

you are holidaying after all.

 

It seems whenever you go boating you find something to whinge about.

Either boat and enjoy,

or do something else and leave the actual boaters in peace

The difference revolves around using a boat for accommodation without really embracing the concept of boating (using a boat for navigation) vs using a boat for travelling aka navigation. On this trip we visited the Wey and reached the most southerly point of the interconnected inland waterways. IMO that is what boating is about, but of course you are quite entitled to hold a different view such as that boating is all about tying up your boat badly and then complaining when another boat comes past.

 

But since the OED defines boating as the activity of travelling by boat, I think convention is on my side.

Edited July 28, 2022 by nicknorman

[Jerra]

On 27/07/2022 at 14:59, Rob-M said:

I'll exit a lock as soon as the gates are open unless a boat is coming my way in the next lock, in which case I will wait until they start coming out of their lock.  If I progress all Ng a pound before the gates are open on the next lock I will go slowly, drifting out of gear if required until the gates start opening.  If it is windy or a shallow pound I will steer up to the gates and hold the boat there.  The last thing I want to do is have to come in to a lock mooring and wait.

I have seen two boats sitting looking at each other waiting for the other to exit their lock.

[nicknorman]

Just now, Jerra said:

I have seen two boats sitting looking at each other waiting for the other to exit their lock.

Yes, had that at Caen Hill. Two boats each way facing each other off. I went for an ice cream!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

The difference revolves around using a boat for accommodation without really embracing the concept of boating (using a boat for navigation) vs using a boat for travelling aka navigation. On this trip we visited the Wey and reached the most southerly point of the interconnected inland waterways. IMO that is what boating is about, but of course you are quite entitled to hold a different view such as that boating is all about tying up your boat badly and then complaining when another boat comes past.

Who are we to say whose embracing the concept and who is not?

 

Regards mooring: It could just be that some are not as experienced as you.
This time of year there are lots of people out and about for their annual trip, don’t be so hard on them.

And well done for getting to the most southerly point of the interconnected inland waterways.

Were you able to spend time there? Or was it something to tick off and move on?

 

Is having a tick list embracing the concept?

Is a tick list the concept?

[Rob-M]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have seen two boats sitting looking at each other waiting for the other to exit their lock.

I'll fool them by starting to come out of the lock and when they start moving I'll reverse back in.  On Lapworth yesterday we met a few boats in the very short pounds and it was just easier for me to exit the lock and hold the boat against the bank and let them go straight in to the lock.

[nicknorman]

26 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Who are we to say whose embracing the concept and who is not?

 

Regards mooring: It could just be that some are not as experienced as you.
This time of year there are lots of people out and about for their annual trip, don’t be so hard on them.

And well done for getting to the most southerly point of the interconnected inland waterways.

Were you able to spend time there? Or was it something to tick off and move on?

 

Is having a tick list embracing the concept?

Is a tick list the concept?

Well, if the concept is boating as per the dictionary definition, then it seems clear. People who use their boats for navigation are embracing the concept, people who only move their boats because they have to are not.

 

But to be honest I don’t particularly care if people buy boats, sign up to the “no home mooring” law and then do their best to not comply. I only mind when they object to boats that do actually comply. And I really struggle to understand why so many boats are tied up so badly. Sometimes I really want to slap them with a wet fish.

 

As to Godalming, we did wander around the town for an afternoon, but it’s not a big place. And anyway, boating is about the travelling, not the arriving.

Edited July 28, 2022 by nicknorman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well, if the concept is boating as per the dictionary definition, then it seems clear. People who use their boats for navigation are embracing the concept, people who only move their boats because they have to are not.

 

But to be honest I don’t particularly care if people buy boats, sign up to the “no home mooring” law and then do their best to not comply. I only mind when they object to boats that do actually comply. And I really struggle to understand why so many boats are tied up so badly. Sometimes I really want to slap them with a wet fish.

 

As to Godalming, we did wander around the town for an afternoon, but it’s not a big place. And anyway, boating is about the travelling, not the arriving.

😂

are you now saying those who can’t moor proper are those without a home mooring?

 

I shall give it a rest now because you’re doing the Daily Mail thing for giggles

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Yes, had that at Caen Hill. Two boats each way facing each other off. I went for an ice cream!

I said to the crew of a boat coming the other way what is he waiting for and she replied for you to leave the lock.

[nicknorman]

38 minutes ago, Goliath said:

😂

are you now saying those who can’t moor proper are those without a home mooring?

 

I shall give it a rest now because you’re doing the Daily Mail thing for giggles

 

That would be a binary comment which clearly is ridiculous, whereas the reality is about generalisations. There do seem to be a lot of boats that spend a lot of time moored around here (no idea whether they have a home mooring or not) that are tied up badly. On our travels we saw a lot of boats not tied up properly. Mostly, but not exclusively, they have a lot of junk on roofs etc which tends to point to live aboard without home mooring, but clearly not so in every case. Generalisations.

I think that what irks me a bit is that people who spend most of their time moored on line SHOULD be the best at mooring. But it seems not. Even when they don’t shout “SLOW DOWN” (which as I said, no-one did on this trip) it pains me to see the clanking of nappy pins and the … wait for it … wait for it (as the loosely moored boat picks up speed) snatch and roll as the line goes tight with the moored boat now doing 1mph. Or 0.25mph and tied by the centreline. Even though they didn’t shout “SLOW DOWN!” Im half expecting it and that causes stress which could so easily be eliminated if only they had the vaguest idea about how to tie up,

[Bargebuilder]

15 hours ago, IanD said:

 

It's not so much the visible wash that makes other boats move, that's just waves on the surface -- what has a much bigger effect is the volume of water that has to be pushed sideways out of the way and then pulled backwards past the moving hull as the boat goes past, and this mainly depends on the displacement of the passing boat and how fast it's going. The effect of this on the moored boat then also depends on how much water space is available for this water to move backwards through (wider/deeper = more water = slower = less boat movement), and also how much water there is under the moored boat (in case it gets pulled out from underneath).

 

The way to think about this is to imagine the passing boat with its bow just approaching the moored boat. Now move it forwards by one boat length, and one boat's worth of water (e.g. 20 tons or so) has to move back by one boat length from level with the moored boat to behind it (20t boat and 20t water swap places), this means there has to be a "slope" on the water surface which you can see, the level drops towards the stern of the moving boat -- so this pulls the moored boat backwards, and this can be pretty strong. Move the boat forwards another length so its just clear of the moored boat, and another 20t of water moves from in front of the moored boat to level with it and then stops, so the water surface slopes the other way, so the moored boat is pulled forwards (but less strongly).

 

The net effect is to pull the moored boat backwards strongly and then forwards more weakly as the moving boat passes, and it's this surge that causes most of the mooring problems, not the wash as such. Long swims do help with visible wash, with short swims this can make the problem worse because the water has to accelerate faster to get out of the way (so you get a surge forwards before the big surge back), but it's mainly boat displacement and speed that has the biggest effect -- especially speed... 😉

 

It's easy to see all this if you're travelling on a shallow/narrow canal (especially with piling or walling), you can see how the water level rises then drops at the bank by watching how much wet area appears as the boat passes, and then how the water comes back to level behind the boat. This can be several inches, and it's this "slope" on the water that pulls moored boats around as they always slide "downhill"...

 

(so with a blunt bow/short swims you get a pull forwards, then a strong pull backwards, then a pull forwards, bouncing the moored boat forwards and backwards against the ropes -- which is worse than with long swims where you mainly get just the pull backwards, which is weaker anyway)

Absolutely right, but a correctly sprung boat will hardly surge at all, improving comfort for the occupants and preventing pins from being pulled out as 20 tonnes of moving boat is brought to a sudden halt when relying on just fore and aft breast lines.

 

There is little doubt that the shouters get pleasure from doing so, particularly the ones that moor badly, often with lines so slack that they hang out feet from the bank and sometimes have a loosely tied dinghy or canoe trailing from their stern.

 

It matters not whether you pass in a widebeam which might bounce around the moorers vessel, or a tiny grp cruiser that displaces almost no water and couldn't possibly affect a properly moored boat, all will be yelled at by a certain type of moorer, or should I say moron?

 

[Arthur Marshall]

12 hours ago, Goliath said:

Who are we to say whose embracing the concept and who is nno

 

Is having a tick list embracing the concept?

Is a tick list the concept?

I'm always intrigued by those boat that have their back doors carpeted with brass wotsits with canal names embossed on them, and always have a slight feeling that they've bought a job lot on eBay.

It's the boater's equivalent of urban graffiti.

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Absolutely right, but a correctly sprung boat will hardly surge at all, improving comfort for the occupants and preventing pins from being pulled out as 20 tonnes of moving boat is brought to a sudden halt when relying on just fore and aft breast lines.

 

There is little doubt that the shouters get pleasure from doing so, particularly the ones that moor badly, often with lines so slack that they hang out feet from the bank and sometimes have a loosely tied dinghy or canoe trailing from their stern.

 

It matters not whether you pass in a widebeam which might bounce around the moorers vessel, or a tiny grp cruiser that displaces almost no water and couldn't possibly affect a properly moored boat, all will be yelled at by a certain type of moorer, or should I say moron?

 

 

Wot I said. Springs are the best option, but from observation (cycling past hundreds of boats per week) I doubt that even 10% of moorers use them, almost certainly less. Tight fore and aft lines at no more than 45 degrees to the bank -- preferably even further away from the boat than this to reduce fore-and-aft movement, which is where the biggest forces are -- are the next best option, my guess is that maybe a third of boats do this, and along with the few spring liners they should have no problem with passing boats.

 

The remaining half -- maybe more? -- use short lines at close to right angles, and often slack to boot, and bounce around horribly when boats come past even slowly, and if using mooring pins these regularly pull out. They only have themselves to blame, maybe their anger at this is why they shout at passing boats so much? 😉

Edited July 29, 2022 by IanD

[dmr]

In a perfect world Yes.... but

Due to Rochdale summit restrictions a number of boats have moored in the pound where I am currently moored, some left unattended. As a good boater I have talked to them and reminded them to leave their mooring lines slack rather than giving in to the idea of tight lines. The water level is variable and the washwall slopes and has uneven stones. Tight ropes just hold the boat against the wall and it tips over, slack ropes hopefully let the boat ride up and down with the water level. We just have to hope that any passing boats are well behaved and don't go too fast.

 

And then there is the K&A..... 😀

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

In a perfect world Yes.... but

Due to Rochdale summit restrictions a number of boats have moored in the pound where I am currently moored, some left unattended. As a good boater I have talked to them and reminded them to leave their mooring lines slack rather than giving in to the idea of tight lines. The water level is variable and the washwall slopes and has uneven stones. Tight ropes just hold the boat against the wall and it tips over, slack ropes hopefully let the boat ride up and down with the water level. We just have to hope that any passing boats are well behaved and don't go too fast.

 

And then there is the K&A..... 😀

 

In which case a good set of large fenders is useful. I had to do similar the other day having left the boat against a pontoon under which the gunwales could have become trapped in the event the water level recovers. However I don't generally leave Vulpes online when I'm not aboard.

 

Overall I've never found mooring satisfactorily to be anywhere near as challenging as the huge amount of column inches dedicated to the subject on this channel might have you believe. I never use springs and I often find my lines are tied at close to right angles because the standard spacing for rings and bollards (which I prefer) seems to be about the same as the length of my boat.

 

 

 

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, dmr said:

In a perfect world Yes.... but

Due to Rochdale summit restrictions a number of boats have moored in the pound where I am currently moored, some left unattended. As a good boater I have talked to them and reminded them to leave their mooring lines slack rather than giving in to the idea of tight lines. The water level is variable and the washwall slopes and has uneven stones. Tight ropes just hold the boat against the wall and it tips over, slack ropes hopefully let the boat ride up and down with the water level. We just have to hope that any passing boats are well behaved and don't go too fast.

 

And then there is the K&A..... 😀

 

If water level varies a lot then obviously short tight lines are a bad idea because they can hang the boat up. However this doesn't apply to probably 99% of moorings, where the level variation is at most a few inches...

 

If you're away from the boat for a long period having them too tight carries some risk in case something goes wrong with water levels, like on the Rochdale. But then if you're not on the boat you won't be inside waiting to run out and shout at passing boaters to go slow, so it won't matter if the boat moves about a bit so long as it stays moored up... 😉

Edited July 29, 2022 by IanD