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CRT training vlockies today, wrongly


LadyG

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9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree with the first two but surely the lock keeper should be in charge.

Regardless of whether the lock keeper is paid or a volunteer the level of competency should be the same. 

If no competent lock keeper is available it would be best to leave the lock operation to the boater.

 

 

 

 

On a mechanised lock that essentially can't be operated by the boater such as on the River Severn then the lock keeper is definitely in charge, but they are well trained, competent and in my experience very good. As a boater you follow their instruction.

 

On a lock you can easily work yourself and with just your own boat - or at most one other - in the lock, there is no way a relatively little trained volunteer should be in charge. I don't think CRT would want them to be either because who is then liable when there is a cilling or a hang up?

 

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9 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

On a mechanised lock that essentially can't be operated by the boater such as on the River Severn then the lock keeper is definitely in charge, but they are well trained, competent and in my experience very good. As a boater you follow their instruction.

 

On a lock you can easily work yourself and with just your own boat - or at most one other - in the lock, there is no way a relatively little trained volunteer should be in charge. I don't think CRT would want them to be either because who is then liable when there is a cilling or a hang up?

 

My point being there should be no ''little trained'' person involved  unless that person is under supervision of a competent C&RT person (regardless of the lock size).

 

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8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

My point being there should be no ''little trained'' person involved  unless that person is under supervision of a competent C&RT person (regardless of the lock size).

 

My point would be that it is ok to have a “little trained” person involved provided that a primary tenet of what training they do have, is to ask before giving assistance and always follow the boater’s instructions. How much training do you need to get those 2 points across? After all at busy lock flight such as we had yesterday (no volockies present), probably no-one has received any formal training, some were very inexperienced, but everyone respected the wishes of whichever boater was in the lock.

Edited by nicknorman
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On 23/07/2022 at 08:27, Bargebuilder said:

My experience of volockies, is not that they act dangerously, but quite the opposite, they can be too cautious. They discourage walking across gates, make you open both gates before entering a double lock, lift the paddles half way etc. 

 

Sharing with single handers can also be slow and frustrating if you are in a hurry, as they have a lot more to be careful about and seem in general to be creep along and pass through locks really slowly.

 

"if you are in a hurry". Perhaps you have picked the wrong mode of transport

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4 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Sometimes even boaters have a train to catch and wish to make progress without undue hindrance and within the speed limits. Who are you to hold them up?

I'm just a nobody that would not knowingly delay you, in the very likely event that you catch me up.

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44 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

No he hasn't. There are many legitimate reasons why a boater may wish - or even need - to work a lock quickly and provided they do so properly then that's no business of anyone else.

 

I really dislike people telling me there is no rush or similar platitudes. I do pretty much all of my boating to some sort of schedule. What right does someone who (probably) has the time and money to boat entirely in the manner of their wishing to tell me I should be the same as them?

 

There is a self-righteous culture - very evident on FB - that seems to think mooring up gives you the right to judge what other boaters do, when in reality mooring up is the single most selfish thing any boater ever does because it forces actions on others.

 

Hurrah! At least we totally agree on something!

 

And anyway, there is a big difference between rushing, and not pointlessly wasting time for the sake of it.

Edited by nicknorman
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23 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Hurrah! At least we totally agree on something!

 

And anyway, there is a big difference between rushing, and not pointlessly wasting time for the sake of it.

But that is where a fine line appears: whilst it may well be the case that a boater has the right to operate a lock for themselves at their chosen speed, that does not, in today's context, give them a right to demand another boater does the same.

 

And, of course, that applies both to slower and to faster!

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1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

But that is where a fine line appears: whilst it may well be the case that a boater has the right to operate a lock for themselves at their chosen speed, that does not, in today's context, give them a right to demand another boater does the same.

 

And, of course, that applies both to slower and to faster!

Yes absolutely. We are fairly deep drafted and sometimes on shallow canals, even though we are going at the maximum appropriate speed (no breaking wash) a shallower drafted boat will come up behind. We always let them past at the earliest opportunity.

 

But plenty don’t reciprocate. It’s the same when you want to walk into a shop. The people in front have taken 1 step into a large shop, then stop to look at their shopping list, their phone, or just gawp around, totally oblivious to the people behind  who are blocked from trying to get into the shop behind them.

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2 hours ago, Idle Days said:

I'm just a nobody that would not knowingly delay you, in the very likely event that you catch me up.

Then why the judgemental comment about speed and getting somewhere?

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

....... It’s the same when you want to walk into a shop. The people in front have taken 1 step into a large shop, then stop to look at their shopping list, their phone, or just gawp around, totally oblivious to the people behind  who are blocked from trying to get into the shop behind them.

The ones that get me are those who get the supermarket till, and after slowly loading their shopping into numerous bags, suddenly realise that they have to pay, and spend an inordinate amount of time searching for their credit card, or even worse, want to pay in cash, and spend ages sorting out all their coins so that they can tender the correct amount. All whilst the queue grows behind them.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

And anyway, there is a big difference between rushing, and not pointlessly wasting time for the sake of it.

 Or as boatman Tommy Humphries used to advise, "Goo steady but keep on a-gooin'"

 

Tam

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Just on different locking speeds, we arrived to top of Hillmorton locks today to find both locks empty. The offside lock bottom gates were open, boat about to exit. Average private narrowboat with 2 people of similar ages to me and Jeff, but one was of the female disposition.

 

We filled and drained our lock, and by the time we were approaching the middle lock they were still on the lock landing. We filled and drained our lock, getting empty before them but anyway they were both bankside with boat roped to lock, so we exited. We filled and drained the bottom lock exiting the lock just as they appeared at the top of it.

 

We didn’t run, slam any gates, leave any gates open or do any other naughty or rushing thing, we just got on with it efficiently. So we did 3 locks in the time it took them to do one and a bit. Watching them, there was a huge amount of faffing with ropes, unnecessary walking around etc so I think they were expending energy at the same rate that we were, it was just misguided.

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30 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 Or as boatman Tommy Humphries used to advise, "Goo steady but keep on a-gooin'"

 

Tam

 

Which you'll know is the only way to move long distances day after day.

 

It's all a balance between economy of effort, time and safety. What's quick through one lock isn't quick through hundreds of locks.

 

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

Then why the judgemental comment about speed and getting somewhere?

 

I wasn't aware that my comment was judgemental although on review I can see why you took it to be so. 

 

As a wannabe octogenarian I still fail to understand the need for speed that seems inbred in so many of us, whatever the mode of transport adopted. I stand with W. H. Davies on this point feeling that just standing and staring in a worthwhile use of one's time.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

It can be, but only if one has the time to spare. If one is on a schedule to for example, be back at the marina to catch a pre-booked train, as I currently am, need to make an appointment with friends, a pub or shop before closing time, need to get the hire boat back on time, or in fact a thousand other things that happen on a timed schedule, then being obstructed by someone standing and staring can be rather irritating. It’s all about being considerate and recognising that other people’s priorities might not be the same as ours.

Its not just the delay that can be caused. It can also impact on capacity. If all boaters take 10 minutes to pass through a lock, then 6 boats per hour can pass. If each boat takes half an hour then only two boats can pass in an hour. On busy canals a few slow boaters through locks can cause big queues to build up.

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4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes absolutely. We are fairly deep drafted and sometimes on shallow canals, even though we are going at the maximum appropriate speed (no breaking wash) a shallower drafted boat will come up behind. We always let them past at the earliest opportunity.

 

Unlike a certain steam driven boat with its butty

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On 23/07/2022 at 09:12, Paul C said:

 

If you threatened violence against me I'd kill you - efficiently.

Whilst I'm sure you meant this as a joke, the post has been reported to us.

Please avoid posting comments which could be construed as a threat.

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9 minutes ago, Athy said:

Whilst I'm sure you meant this as a joke, the post has been reported to us.

Please avoid posting comments which could be construed as a threat.

Well to be fair it was in response to a threat of serious physical violence so if that post wasn’t reported, I would like to report it now.

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44 minutes ago, Athy said:

Whilst I'm sure you meant this as a joke, the post has been reported to us.

Please avoid posting comments which could be construed as a threat.

Can I just say it wasn’t me that reported it…I’m quite capable of looking after myself! 

33 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well to be fair it was in response to a threat of serious physical violence so if that post wasn’t reported, I would like to report it now.

Awwww. Are you feeling threatened?? 😂
 

Quite ironic given how you have treated other posters over the years on here. Still bully’s never like it when people fight back. 

Edited by frangar
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22 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Just on different locking speeds, we arrived to top of Hillmorton locks today to find both locks empty. The offside lock bottom gates were open, boat about to exit. Average private narrowboat with 2 people of similar ages to me and Jeff, but one was of the female disposition.

 

We filled and drained our lock, and by the time we were approaching the middle lock they were still on the lock landing. We filled and drained our lock, getting empty before them but anyway they were both bankside with boat roped to lock, so we exited. We filled and drained the bottom lock exiting the lock just as they appeared at the top of it.

 

We didn’t run, slam any gates, leave any gates open or do any other naughty or rushing thing, we just got on with it efficiently. So we did 3 locks in the time it took them to do one and a bit. Watching them, there was a huge amount of faffing with ropes, unnecessary walking around etc so I think they were expending energy at the same rate that we were, it was just misguided.

But I think we should give credit to the effect of experience on efficient boating. It takes time to work out how best to do a lock (and her4e are many was of 'best') and you only get that experience by (a) listening/watching an expert (b) doing it slowly for quite a while.

 

Much the same with most of my DIY work - an expert could do it in a fraction of the time and much better but thyat's not the point . . . 

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At my son's school, it was a tradition for the sixth formers to hire a number of canal boats for a week in the easter holiday. The year my son went, he was the only one with any previous boating experience.  As we had been taking our children on canal holidays since before they could walk, giving them experience of handling boats up to 70', my son was able to instruct the other crew members on the essentials, how to steer without running aground,  how to operate locks efficiently and safely, and how to use ropes effectively when mooring.  As a consequence, their boat arrived at their first night's planned stop well before the first of the other boats, much to the chagrin of a teacher on another boat who said they must have been speeding to have got there so early  (refuted by the teacher on their boat). 

Edited by Ronaldo47
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On 24/07/2022 at 19:57, MrsM said:

Had a brilliant run down Hatton today. It was our first time on this flight. Himself went ahead and set each lock. Paired up with another boat of 4 so lots of help with the gates. In and out of every lock together and we cleared the flight in 2hrs 25. I'm sure it could be done quicker but it was an absolute pleasure and I think we all enjoyed every minute of it.

We have just gone past each other below Cape Locks.

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