Dutch barge style narrowboats

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, Tam & Di said:

They do market Thomas as a specific vessel. Katherine does have a long skeg but looks otherwise to be flat.

 

Tam

The Thomas is a more recent design, an improvement on the Katherine with a 'V' hull profile, sweeter lines and designed to be able to achieve Cat B, so a more capable and comfortable seagoing vessel.

 

Have a word with Nick and he might adapt the design to make it less beamy, but that would undoubtedly reduce the RCD rating dramatically.

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

The Thomas is a more recent design, an improvement on the Katherine with a 'V' hull profile, sweeter lines and designed to be able to achieve Cat B, so a more capable and comfortable seagoing vessel.

 

Have a word with Nick and he might adapt the design to make it less beamy, but that would undoubtedly reduce the RCD rating dramatically.

 

I'm sure you've seen a few of these, but just in case- here's a view of the interior of a Thomas. These are lovely looking boats, but I bet they're really, really expensive to buy new. 

 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm sure you've seen a few of these, but just in case- here's a view of the interior of a Thomas. These are lovely looking boats, but I bet they're really, really expensive to buy new. 

 

 

 

You are right there, but I've seen 10 year old Thomas 50s for £140k with oak cladding and furniture and granite kitchen worktops, so not so different from a NB of similar volume, but much nicer to live in.

[Tony1]

For the OP: 

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons and perhaps stimulate a different line of thought, I wonder what you think of this wee beastie? 

(setting aside the limitations of it being all-electric for the moment)

I think its a lovely thing, even if it is slightly mad- especially with that powerboat-styled rear deck, but doubtless it would be horrifically expensive, and if I'm honest, its sheer novelty means you would be having conversations about it all day long, with boaters and civilians. So I would never buy one, unless money was literally no object. It seems like its probably been made partly to showcase design ideas, rather than strictly to a customer's spec.

 

The dutch barges will always be the most beautiful boats to live aboard on our rivers and (wide) canals- no argument there, at least from me.

But if I was cruising in this thing, every time I came back from Tesco with the shopping, I'd have to stop and stare at it for five minutes before going aboard. 

And as for storing 10 bags of coal on the roof in winter- well that would surely constitute some sort of criminal offence. 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Tony1

[Bargebuilder]

10 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

For the OP: 

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons and perhaps stimulate a different line of thought, I wonder what you think of this wee beastie? 

(setting aside the limitations of it being all-electric for the moment)

I think its a lovely thing, even if it is slightly mad- especially with that powerboat-styled rear deck, but doubtless it would be horrifically expensive, and if I'm honest, its sheer novelty means you would be having conversations about it all day long, with boaters and civilians. So I would never buy one, unless money was literally no object. It seems like its probably been made partly to showcase design ideas, rather than strictly to a customer's spec.

 

The dutch barges will always be the most beautiful boats to live aboard on our rivers and (wide) canals- no argument there, at least from me.

But if I was cruising in this thing, every time I came back from Tesco with the shopping, I'd have to stop and stare at it for five minutes before going aboard. 

And as for storing 10 bags of coal on the roof in winter- well that would surely constitute some sort of criminal offence. 

 

 

Wel..... I agree with you when you say that Dutch Barges are the most beautiful boats.

[Tam & Di]

22 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

And as for storing 10 bags of coal on the roof in winter- well that would surely constitute some sort of criminal offence. 

 

What would you use the coal for on an all-electric boat?  🤷‍♂️ (actually I see it's called a yacht, not a boat, but that's another issue 😁)

 

Tam

[Tam & Di]

33 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I must confess that I did not watch much of the blurb on YouTube, but I can't imagine what this is designed for. Certainly not canals, as it has no practical deck furniture (bollards etc) for use in locks. The windows look rather vulnerable too.

 

Tam

[David Mack]

6 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

as it has no practical deck furniture (bollards etc) for use in locks.

But it does have a cross on the front for you to prostrate yourself before, from the luxury of your recliner chairs...

Edited July 22, 2022 by David Mack

[Stilllearning]

Just now, David Mack said:

But it does have a cross on the front for you to prostrate yourself before, from the luxury of your recliner chairs...

It does look somewhat sacrificial, as in it will get knocked off by low branches etc.

 

[Tony1]

28 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

What would you use the coal for on an all-electric boat?  🤷‍♂️ (actually I see it's called a yacht, not a boat, but that's another issue 😁)

 

Tam

 

I can't help thinking that as a full time liveaboard on a wide beam boat, I'd have to have a coal stove in those dark and freezing winter months. 

Perhaps I could sneak in a small chimney in somewhere on that roof, and disguise it so that it doesnt ruin the whole film-star yacht aesthetic...? 

No, probably not...

Perhaps their next project will be a 'Titanic'-styled widebeam, with a series of chimney stacks along the roof. 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Tam & Di said:

I must confess that I did not watch much of the blurb on YouTube, but I can't imagine what this is designed for. Certainly not canals, as it has no practical deck furniture (bollards etc) for use in locks. The windows look rather vulnerable too.

 

Tam

 

It was made for a liveaboard customer to moor on the Thames, presumably somewhere cheap like St Katherines Dock... 😉

 

If it ever moves -- which I believe was their intention -- I expect it would probably only cruise up and down the Thames.

[cuthound]

@jupiter1124 Whilst I have no direct experience of a narrow beam Dutch Barge style narrowboat, (other than seeing a few of them), the shared ownership company that provided my two shareboats built one for their American customers at the end of the last century..

 

It was a disaster, because the the boat alledgedly handled very poorly, despite bing built by Piper Boats and wooden wheelhouse kept getting damaged on low bridges and tunnels, even though it was designed to be dismantled to allow easy passage under them. This was probably exacerbated by the boat being owned by 12 different families, hence having many more new steerers who had to learn whether or not the wheelhouse would fit under a given bridge.

 

When 9/11 dramatically reduced the number of American customers, the company quickly sold the boat off at a much reduced price.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

@jupiter1124 Whilst I have no direct experience of a narrow beam Dutch Barge style narrowboat, (other than seeing a few of them), the shared ownership company that provided my two shareboats built one for their American customers at the end of the last century..

 

It was a disaster, because the the boat alledgedly handled very poorly, despite bing built by Piper Boats and wooden wheelhouse kept getting damaged on low bridges and tunnels, even though it was designed to be dismantled to allow easy passage under them. This was probably exacerbated by the boat being owned by 12 different families, hence having many more new steerers who had to learn whether or not the wheelhouse would fit under a given bridge.

 

When 9/11 dramatically reduced the number of American customers, the company quickly sold the boat off at a much reduced price.

 

Dave Thomas built quite a few Dutch Barge influenced Narrowboats in Braunston, built to a design by Balliol Fowden. Dave retired a few years ago and I believe more have been built by anyone else. Here are a couple of examples:-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by David Schweizer

[Alan de Enfield]

Don't they look awful - they look like the old Thames 'Night Soil' (Sewage) barges with a lid welded on top.

 

Narrowboats are a weird compromise when they are 'normal' but trying to be something they are not just ends up as a camel being a horse designed by a committee

 

There was a wide beam in our marina that was very similar, in fact it probably looked worse.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

What about the thing that Timothy Spall bobs about in 

[IanD]

Wide Dutch barges work -- even on canals where they fit -- because though they have no tumblehome on the cabin, the gunwales are also much wider than a narrowboat, typically 250mm or more, which not only makes walking along them easy but means the cabin top corners are further in from the hull than a narrowboat with typical 100mm tumblehome and 100mm gunwales.

 

Now try and build a "narrow" Dutch barge (6'10" hull width) with narrow gunwales and the result is that the cabin top corners are too close to the hull and very prone to damage from bridges and tunnels -- and walking along the gunwale is dangerous because the cabin sides are vertical. If the gunwales are increased to "real" Dutch barge width this knocks a foot or so off the internal cabin width and it's then too narrow.

 

Nice for wide boats, doesn't really work for narrow ones...

Edited July 22, 2022 by IanD

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What about the thing that Timothy Spall bobs about in 

 

I like his boat, and others like it. The problem is narrow ones which look completely wrong.

[designbywhacky]

I love them, to the point as now in the fortunate position of been able to have a new boat built it is going to be a Dutch barge style narrow boat, Reeves will start on it on the end of this month. There are a handful on the network, so sure it will draw attention, But is also going to be an adapted boat with a wheelchair lift and wider walk ways for access. Once build starts I will be shareing pics etc on disabledboaters.org

[Nightwatch]

In my extensive experience as a sea going sailor, not!, the two ex assault ships of the RN, Fearless and Intrepid, were flat bottomed and their behaviour at sea was somewhat different to the more traditionally built warships.

 

I never served on either of them so it’s only hearsay. In addition replica Dutch barges and fat boats don’t have stabilisers.

[magnetman]

Wide side decks seem useful but you get an incredibly narrow cabin on a narrow beam boat. You can allow for this by having vertical cabin sides but it will still be even more tubelike than an ordinary narrow boat. It is small enough in there already there is no need to make it even smaller.

 

I've had a few different types of boats and helmed a narrow "dutch barge style" on canals. 

 

I wouldn't touch one of those with a largepole. 

 

Interesting design language but at the end of the day it is an unsatisfactory boat. 

 

Some people like them no doubt. 

 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, designbywhacky said:

I love them, to the point as now in the fortunate position of been able to have a new boat built it is going to be a Dutch barge style narrow boat, Reeves will start on it on the end of this month. There are a handful on the network, so sure it will draw attention, But is also going to be an adapted boat with a wheelchair lift and wider walk ways for access. Once build starts I will be shareing pics etc on disabledboaters.org

 

If you have a narrowboat built with wider walkways for access, you'll have even more restricted space inside for fitting things in than a "normal" narrowboat, which is already bad enough -- and worse still  if you have wider gunwales... 😞

 

I'm not saying this isn't going to work, it certainly does on trip boats, but if this is a liveaboard (or even longer-term holiday boat) it will certainly restrict things...

[designbywhacky]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

If you have a narrowboat built with wider walkways for access, you'll have even more restricted space inside for fitting things in than a "normal" narrowboat, which is already bad enough -- and worse still  if you have wider gunwales... 😞

 

I'm not saying this isn't going to work, it certainly does on trip boats, but if this is a liveaboard (or even longer-term holiday boat) it will certainly restrict things...

 

I have done a lot of research on this, visiting many adapted boats and working with lots of folk over the years in my vested interest with many boaters of all abilities with disabledboaters.org. Yes there are compromises to be made, I lived on a former hire boat which we have just sold which restricted me even further meaning when legs not working I was literally trapped at times legs not working.

 

Lyneal trust is one of the organizations that has adapted boats for holidays, (yes I know different to livaboards) and it works well. 

 

I am very lucky to be building from scratch so can incorporate a wheel chair lift into a boot room or boatmans cabin area at about 4 foot long. then in to a galley with narrower cabinets on one side and full side on the other allowing good wide passage through and loads of storage at the same time, saloon will have an already adapted sofa I had made by elite furnishings and lift off tables, then a walk through wet room with appropriate fittings and sliding doors, then 2 bedrooms with single beds so accessible for chair and help if needed to get onto beds. follow through to snug or study come dressing room in the extended cabin. all planned out to leave turning circles in boatmans cabin space, saloon. wet room and bow cabin.

 

If anything this boat will defo have a lot more storage, and more usuable space than my old boat. and be a lot less restrictive, as I can design from scratch to my personal needs.

 

Bottom line is with a bit of research and thought it is extremely doable , no different from bricks and mortar in that respect,

[IanD]

49 minutes ago, designbywhacky said:

 

I have done a lot of research on this, visiting many adapted boats and working with lots of folk over the years in my vested interest with many boaters of all abilities with disabledboaters.org. Yes there are compromises to be made, I lived on a former hire boat which we have just sold which restricted me even further meaning when legs not working I was literally trapped at times legs not working.

 

Lyneal trust is one of the organizations that has adapted boats for holidays, (yes I know different to livaboards) and it works well. 

 

I am very lucky to be building from scratch so can incorporate a wheel chair lift into a boot room or boatmans cabin area at about 4 foot long. then in to a galley with narrower cabinets on one side and full side on the other allowing good wide passage through and loads of storage at the same time, saloon will have an already adapted sofa I had made by elite furnishings and lift off tables, then a walk through wet room with appropriate fittings and sliding doors, then 2 bedrooms with single beds so accessible for chair and help if needed to get onto beds. follow through to snug or study come dressing room in the extended cabin. all planned out to leave turning circles in boatmans cabin space, saloon. wet room and bow cabin.

 

If anything this boat will defo have a lot more storage, and more usuable space than my old boat. and be a lot less restrictive, as I can design from scratch to my personal needs.

 

Bottom line is with a bit of research and thought it is extremely doable , no different from bricks and mortar in that respect,

 

Your short post read rather like those of dreamers who come onto CWDF with wonderful but badly-thought-through ideas who simply aren't aware of the compromises necessary on narrowboats -- in contrast you've obviously done your research properly and are well aware of all the issues, I hope you have a successful build 🙂

[designbywhacky]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Your short post read rather like those of dreamers who come onto CWDF with wonderful but badly-thought-through ideas who simply aren't aware of the compromises necessary on narrowboats -- in contrast you've obviously done your research properly and are well aware of all the issues, I hope you have a successful build 🙂

 

[Tony Brooks]

56 minutes ago, designbywhacky said:

 

I have done a lot of research on this, visiting many adapted boats and working with lots of folk over the years in my vested interest with many boaters of all abilities with disabledboaters.org. Yes there are compromises to be made, I lived on a former hire boat which we have just sold which restricted me even further meaning when legs not working I was literally trapped at times legs not working.

 

Lyneal trust is one of the organizations that has adapted boats for holidays, (yes I know different to livaboards) and it works well. 

 

I am very lucky to be building from scratch so can incorporate a wheel chair lift into a boot room or boatmans cabin area at about 4 foot long. then in to a galley with narrower cabinets on one side and full side on the other allowing good wide passage through and loads of storage at the same time, saloon will have an already adapted sofa I had made by elite furnishings and lift off tables, then a walk through wet room with appropriate fittings and sliding doors, then 2 bedrooms with single beds so accessible for chair and help if needed to get onto beds. follow through to snug or study come dressing room in the extended cabin. all planned out to leave turning circles in boatmans cabin space, saloon. wet room and bow cabin.

 

If anything this boat will defo have a lot more storage, and more usuable space than my old boat. and be a lot less restrictive, as I can design from scratch to my personal needs.

 

Bottom line is with a bit of research and thought it is extremely doable , no different from bricks and mortar in that respect,

 

I get a bit fed up with the "traditionalists" who come out with things like a particular design does not look right. What matters is what it looks like in your eyes, even if you are bothered, and how it works for you. Best of luck with the build, and I hope it all works out as you think it will.