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Teenage boy, 16, dies after swimming in West Yorkshire canal during heatwave.


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6 hours ago, john.k said:

You can teach all the swimming you like,Ive never heard mention of  freezing cold water underneath hot surface water in the middle of scorching hot summer...... a lot of people would say its nonsense.

 

We were diving in a quarry a couple of weeks ago, the surface water temperature was 12 degrees C, at depth it was 4 degrees C.

Hence the need for drysuits and thick thermal "Arctic" undersuits,

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the concept of a nanny state springs to mind.

 

it seems to me that skools teach kids that they automatically deserve respect (as opposed to having to earn it as we were tort in the good old days) and foster a sense of entitlement that makes the kids think they are immortal and not vulnerable to the possible dangers out there.

 

it is not society's responsibility to act as substitute parents when the parents are not fit to own a puppy let alone a child.

 

 

.......................  right wing reactionary?    not really, I just believe in Darwinism.

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3 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

the concept of a nanny state springs to mind.

 

it seems to me that skools teach kids that they automatically deserve respect (as opposed to having to earn it as we were tort in the good old days) and foster a sense of entitlement that makes the kids think they are immortal and not vulnerable to the possible dangers out there.

 

it is not society's responsibility to act as substitute parents when the parents are not fit to own a puppy let alone a child.

 

 

.......................  right wing reactionary?    not really, I just believe in Darwinism.

Exactly.  If thousands of kids suddenly take to the great outdoors for a few hot days and half a dozen don't return it really isn't that bad on average is it? 

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3 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

the concept of a nanny state springs to mind.

 

it seems to me that skools teach kids that they automatically deserve respect (as opposed to having to earn it as we were tort in the good old days) and foster a sense of entitlement that makes the kids think they are immortal and not vulnerable to the possible dangers out there.

 

it is not society's responsibility to act as substitute parents when the parents are not fit to own a puppy let alone a child.

 

 

.......................  right wing reactionary?    not really, I just believe in Darwinism.

I don't think schools teach it. The internet and social media do - look on the politics forum to see how many of us normally sensible folk think our ideas deserve respect and nobody else's do and resort to flinging insults about instead of rational argument.

As you say, it's not society's place to act as substitute parents and you can't control other people's kids. But all kids think they are immortal. A genuine awareness of death comes quite late in adolescence, that's why they suddenly get all het up about the state of the world. It wears off, by mid twenties no-one cares any more.

Perhaps none of them should be taught to swim, then they wouldn't go in the water.

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6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think schools teach it.

Thank you!   I know schools don't teach it, but as always when there is a problem with children it must be the schools fault, rather than the parents or society.  A form of passing the buck.

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You need to shock young people into taking notice, and that probably isn't allowed at school now incase the little poppets have nightmares.

Around 13 maybe 14 yrs old we were asked to skip a school assembly as we had a talk to attend by a retired policeman.  He was ex traffic,  and was trying to get across the dangers of stolen cars, motorbikes etc.  Many graphic photos were shown,  extreme by any standard,  but it certainly stuck in our minds.

To the point where I still physically cringe when I see a pillock in gloves and a T shirt on a motorbike. 

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2 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

You need to shock young people into taking notice, and that probably isn't allowed at school now incase the little poppets have nightmares

 

 

 

 

While Rolf Harris’ water safety campaign was all gentle anecdotes and beard-splashing fun with the emphasis very much on learning to swim, this darker campaign was deliberately designed, like a low-rent Jaws, to scare kids away from water altogether. Horror legend Donald Pleasance gives voice to the villain, the Spirit of Dark and Lonely Water, a ghostly, monk-like figure who stalks reckless and unwary youngsters, waiting for his moment to drag them down into the depths of reservoirs, quarries and other dark, lonely and watery places. When sensible children, his nemeses, rescue a foolish child from his clutches the Spirit melts away, Obi-Wan style, leaving only his cloak behind. Although he was beaten this time his parting threat of “I’ll be back!” reverberated in the ears and minds of terrified viewers for many years afterwards.

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32 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

You need to shock young people into taking notice, and that probably isn't allowed at school now incase the little poppets have nightmares.

Around 13 maybe 14 yrs old we were asked to skip a school assembly as we had a talk to attend by a retired policeman.  He was ex traffic,  and was trying to get across the dangers of stolen cars, motorbikes etc.  Many graphic photos were shown,  extreme by any standard,  but it certainly stuck in our minds.

To the point where I still physically cringe when I see a pillock in gloves and a T shirt on a motorbike. 

I am not a biker and I didn't get the talk but I cringe when I see people improperly dressed on bikes.

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8 hours ago, john.k said:

You can teach all the swimming you like,Ive never heard mention of  freezing cold water underneath hot surface water in the middle of scorching hot summer...... a lot of people would say its nonsense.

 

Neither had the lad who died. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I am not a biker and I didn't get the talk but I cringe when I see people improperly dressed on bikes.

 

It's amazing how many people (especially young bikers) have never heard of de-gloving injuries. Perhaps they should be told that one frequent site for such an injury is the penis? 

 

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15 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

It's amazing how many people (especially young bikers) have never heard of de-gloving injuries. Perhaps they should be told that one frequent site for such an injury is the penis? 

The very thought makes the eyes water.

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I recall a cop doing a session on bicycle safety....unfortunately he was cut short when a  scrote flicked a grass straw into his eye.Of course in the 50s there were consequences for injuring a copper.

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Thank you!   I know schools don't teach it, but as always when there is a problem with children it must be the schools fault, rather than the parents or society.  A form of passing the buck.

Sometimes it's nobody's fault really is it.

Picture a sunny day on a Rotherham council estate.. Tarquin,  Rufus and the gang decide to go down to the cut for a swim. On arrival at Aldewarke lock Tarquin and Rufus settle down on the jetty below the lock,  dipping the water with sticks to check the depth,  testing the temperature..      Shane on the other hand climbs straight up the paddle gear and launches himself headfirst into the murky depths of the empty lock, where his body becomes entangled with a stolen motorcycle frame dumped by his brother Wade, last week. 

 

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46 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Sometimes it's nobody's fault really is it.

Picture a sunny day on a Rotherham council estate.. Tarquin,  Rufus and the gang decide to go down to the cut for a swim. On arrival at Aldewarke lock Tarquin and Rufus settle down on the jetty below the lock,  dipping the water with sticks to check the depth,  testing the temperature..      Shane on the other hand climbs straight up the paddle gear and launches himself headfirst into the murky depths of the empty lock, where his body becomes entangled with a stolen motorcycle frame dumped by his brother Wade, last week. 

 

I am not sure where you have decided that anybody is to blame.  Certainly nothing I have posted has said anybody is to blame, more where I think responsibilities are and where they shouldn't be laid.

 

However ( not knowing the said lock) I still think Rufus and Tarquin are being a little unsafe unless Rotherham has cleaner canals than I come across and no rats.

 

The very concept of swimming in a canal sends shudders through me I am not keen o n getting my hands down the weed hatch let alone fully under water and it touching my mouth.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

While Rolf Harris’ water safety campaign was all gentle anecdotes and beard-splashing fun with the emphasis very much on learning to swim, this darker campaign was deliberately designed, like a low-rent Jaws, to scare kids away from water altogether. Horror legend Donald Pleasance gives voice to the villain, the Spirit of Dark and Lonely Water, a ghostly, monk-like figure who stalks reckless and unwary youngsters, waiting for his moment to drag them down into the depths of reservoirs, quarries and other dark, lonely and watery places. When sensible children, his nemeses, rescue a foolish child from his clutches the Spirit melts away, Obi-Wan style, leaving only his cloak behind. Although he was beaten this time his parting threat of “I’ll be back!” reverberated in the ears and minds of terrified viewers for many years afterwards.

Now, of course. we know that Rolf Harris was much scarier than Donald Pleasance.

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18 hours ago, Jerra said:

Simple question.

 

What would you drop from the curriculum to fit it in.  A question never answered by people have the mantra "schools should teach ......"

An even simpler answer, I take it you are in education, anyway whatever subjects you suggest. In my opinion nothing is more important than saving lives of children and adults.

10 hours ago, john.k said:

You can teach all the swimming you like,Ive never heard mention of  freezing cold water underneath hot surface water in the middle of scorching hot summer...... a lot of people would say its nonsense.

It isn't nonsense and we do talk about cold shock and it's consequences.

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Just now, pete.i said:

An even simpler answer, I take it you are in education, anyway whatever subjects you suggest. In my opinion nothing is more important than saving lives of children and adults.

Typically you say we must teach it but are unprepared to say what you think is less important.  To me that says a lot.  It is always the same with the "schools should teach X" it is expected to fit in and nothing be dropped or people aren't prepared to say what they think is unimportant enough to not teach.

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Just now, Jerra said:

Typically you say we must teach it but are unprepared to say what you think is less important.  To me that says a lot.  It is always the same with the "schools should teach X" it is expected to fit in and nothing be dropped or people aren't prepared to say what they think is unimportant enough to not teach.

 

RE must be a prime candidate for scrapping. That would give every school age child an extra 1/2 hour per week to learn some 'life skills'.

 

(Seems pretty pointless when parents can withdraw their children from the lessons anyway - it has to be offered but attendance is not mandatory)

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

RE must be a prime candidate for scrapping. That would give every school age child an extra 1/2 hour per week to learn some 'life skills'.

 

(Seems pretty pointless when parents can withdraw their children from the lessons anyway - it has to be offered but attendance is not mandatory)

Two thoughts.

 

The first not as long as it is a compulsory part of the curriculum (ie it has to be named as being there), the school would become a failing school

 

The second is that in our current society it is more important (in some peoples eyes) that the basics  of the religions of their peers are understood and accepted.

 

Incidentally in a 40 year career we never had a single child withdrawn from RE, it may have changed since I retired of course.

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31 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I am not sure where you have decided that anybody is to blame.  Certainly nothing I have posted has said anybody is to blame, more where I think responsibilities are and where they shouldn't be laid.

 

However ( not knowing the said lock) I still think Rufus and Tarquin are being a little unsafe unless Rotherham has cleaner canals than I come across and no rats.

 

The very concept of swimming in a canal sends shudders through me I am not keen o n getting my hands down the weed hatch let alone fully under water and it touching my mouth.

Sorry,  I didn't say but the lower lock jetty is in the flowing water of the river, so hopefully not too full of stagnant rat piss.

I was agreeing that very often it's not the fault of anyone in particular - just the individual for their actions.  A group of lads might all have had the same education, but it doesn't always sink in. Pardon the pun.

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2 hours ago, pete.i said:

 

It isn't nonsense and we do talk about cold shock and it's consequences.

 

I have SCUBA dived extensively in Oman and Malta.   Even in the wave-disturbed coastal waters there is still a well-defined boundary between the upper levels of water and the lower.  It is clearly visible, almost like you would see if you dived into a layer of cooking oil that was floating on water, and It is much colder once you pass through the boundary.

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10 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

I have SCUBA dived extensively in Oman and Malta.   Even in the wave-disturbed coastal waters there is still a well-defined boundary between the upper levels of water and the lower.  It is clearly visible, almost like you would see if you dived into a layer of cooking oil that was floating on water, and It is much colder once you pass through the boundary.

 

 

Thermocline.

 

No1 Son is currently doing his Tek-Course for deep diving up to 60 metres. He is doing it in the Phillipines on some of the WW2 Japanese Navy wrecks.

Surface water temperature is 29 degrees C, but it is a wee-bit cooler at 50mts +

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Is there a single  person on this forum who never did anything vaguely life-threatening as a child? I'm constantly astonished that no-one on here has ever broken a single law, including the speed limit, using a mobile or having a drink while driving.

And yet... we reminisce about chucking bangers about on fireworks day, climbing trees, cycling or wandering about on our own, going to the shop for our mum... It reminds me very much of old hippies and rock stars telling kids that drugs are bad for them.

It's what kids do. Adolescents show off for their mates. It's not the fault of parents, schools or anyone most of the time, not even theirs. It's just hormones.

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Is there a single  person on this forum who never did anything vaguely life-threatening as a child? I'm constantly astonished that no-one on here has ever broken a single law, including the speed limit, using a mobile or having a drink while driving.

And yet... we reminisce about chucking bangers about on fireworks day, climbing trees, cycling or wandering about on our own, going to the shop for our mum... It reminds me very much of old hippies and rock stars telling kids that drugs are bad for them.

It's what kids do. Adolescents show off for their mates. It's not the fault of parents, schools or anyone most of the time, not even theirs. It's just hormones.

It is what kids do. But in my case my parents exposed me to controlled danger, starting off with dinghy sailing on the sea aged about 7, solo dinghy sailing on the sea aged about 11, bit of horse riding, rock climbing, messing around with petrol mowers, school friend and I allowed off (sans any parents) for a weekend on the BCN aged 12 etc.

 

Of course not all parents can reasonably do all that, but the current problem is that there is a presumption inculcated into the kids that everything is safe and if anything goes wrong it was someone else’s fault. Which doesn’t work.

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