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My engine cover board is getting a bit tatty, and I asked a question a few months ago about what were the best replacement options. It seemed as if plywood was a good choice, and hexagrip was recommended (in fact that's what it is currently). 

I need a cover about 2m long by 85cm wide, but its not that easy logistically to get a large item (and a specialist product like hexagrip) to the boat, without hiring a van. 

So I'm thinking I should maybe give up on the hexagrip idea, and just buy a 2m x 1m sheet of marine plywood next time I pass by a local DIY store that's close enough to the cut that I can carry it back, or haul it on my little cart thing. 

Hexagrip is only plywood anyway, right? But with a thick plastic coating that makes it non-slip. 

It seems like all I've got to do is make five straight line cuts in the plywood to make the shape I need (so I'll need to buy a circular saw), then round off the top and bottom of the edges a bit, and then coat it with a suitable product to waterproof it, and put some sort of anti-slip product on the top surface. 

To be honest, when it was icy the hexagrip didnt feel at all grippy, so I'm not convinced its that brilliant, but some form of anti slip stuff would be a good idea for the rainy/icy days, so I was wondering:

 

1. What would be a good thick waterproof coating for the plywood that would prolong its life for a few years?  The current board starting getting tatty after about 5 years, so I'm happy with the idea of a new piece of plywood every 5 years. 

 

2. Where would one get hold of that paint that is used on the roof and gunwales, that has some kind of anti-slip grit within it? 

 

3. How would one be best edging the wood? It seems like its the edges that are deteriorating, so that seems like the place to put some real protection. 

The board I'm thinking of is 18mm thick:

https://www.jewson.co.uk/p/essgee-sg-marine-plywood-fsc-2440-x-1220-18mm-PLYMBF18

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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There is no substitute for hexagrip/Buffalo board.  Proper epoxy impregnated layers, epoxy bonded.  Edge treat with epoxy and it lasts well.

 

Most of the "Marine ply" offered is total carp.  Even the stuff that claims to conform to BS 1088. Far East rubbish. Full of voids, damaged veneers and bonded with boiled rice or summat. Somewhere like Robbins in Bristol or Fitchett  and Woolacot (in Notts IIRC) will sell you real Marine ply, but it will cost an arm and a leg and probably more.aà

 

To extend the life, try the West system or similar epoxy coatings.  Again, the good ones are pricey.

 

The cheaper alternative, with about 2,-3 years life,  is good one side WBP (weather and boil proof)  ply, aka shuttering ply. 18mm thick, has one (only one)  smooth face  and otherwise is built down to a price.  Epoxy the edges.

 

Loads of low slip paint out there. Have a look at Rylards, Craftmaster, Symphony.  Or the Midland Swindlers website.

 

N

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2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

There is no substitute for hexagrip/Buffalo board.  Proper epoxy impregnated layers, epoxy bonded.  Edge treat with epoxy and it lasts well.

 

Most of the "Marine ply" offered is total carp.  Even the stuff that claims to conform to BS 1088. Far East rubbish. Full of voids, damaged veneers and bonded with boiled rice or summat. Somewhere like Robbins in Bristol or Fitchett  and Woolacot (in Notts IIRC) will sell you real Marine ply, but it will cost an arm and a leg and probably more.aà

 

To extend the life, try the West system or similar epoxy coatings.  Again, the good ones are pricey.

 

The cheaper alternative, with about 2,-3 years life,  is good one side WBP (weather and boil proof)  ply, aka shuttering ply. 18mm thick, has one (only one)  smooth face  and otherwise is built down to a price.  Epoxy the edges.

 

Loads of low slip paint out there. Have a look at Rylards, Craftmaster, Symphony.  Or the Midland Swindlers website.

 

N

 

Thanks for the info, I didnt realise that hexagrip used such a superior plywood to start with - I guess you do get what you pay for in this case.

And in all honesty if my current hexagrip board had been edged better, it would still be fine- its only the edges that are tatty.

 

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Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

I got a can of clear nonslip paint off Ebay. It's like a varnish with rubber granules in it. Works well.

 

 

Cheers Arthur, I'll check it out on ebay. 

Without a car, I'm going to struggle to get hold of a big sheet of hexagrip, so I might have to make do with the low quality marine ply that you get from DIY stores. Needs must, and all that.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks for the info, I didnt realise that hexagrip used such a superior plywood to start with - I guess you do get what you pay for in this case.

And in all honesty if my current hexagrip board had been edged better, it would still be fine- its only the edges that are tatty.

 

If it's just the edges... I edge mine with some U section aluminium. Might have to trim the board a fraction but it lasts longer.

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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

But by the time you've done all that, you might as well have bought the hexagrip, you'd have spent as much. Should be able to get it delivered to whetever you are.

 

I'll try calling them. I assumed they only delivered to a postal address rather than, say. a canal bridge with a what3words location. But its worth a try. 

 

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If it's just the edges... I edge mine with some U section aluminium. Might have to trim the board a fraction but it lasts longer.

 

Well it was the outer edges initially, but over time, in parts its kind of crept inwards by up to an inch, so the 'edging' horse might have bolted, or least cantered, from the stable. 

Edited by Tony1
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Screenshot_2022-07-03_224110.jpg.6a9f3d0dca244ee1ed90341712a60cce.jpgCan you not split the board into two 1 metre pieces? There must be a strut across the middle anyway. Presumably, like mine, it's a cruiser stern so you would get a bit of water through the join, but very little if it's butted up well. Be a bit lighter to heave about, too  especially if there's soundproofing under it. Mine, which it about that long, is now in three pieces.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Can you not split the board into two 1 metre pieces? There must be a strut across the middle anyway. Presumably, like mine, it's a cruiser stern so you would get a bit of water through the join, but very little if it's butted up well. Be a bit lighter to heave about, too  especially if there's soundproofing under it. Mine, which it about that long, is now in three pieces.

 

I did actually think about reducing the size of the pieces in this way, but I paused because there are drainage channels around the edges of the boards that allow rainwater to drain through the hull. 

The current setup is actually two pieces- the main one is 147cm long and 85cm wide (with a few cut outs), and there is another smaller sheet above the weed hatch- but underneath the junction of these two, there is a drainage channel. 

 

My concern was that if I cut the main/larger sheet into two, the new gap in between the two sheets might allow rainwater to drip onto the engine, which didnt seem ideal. The larger board is a pain to manhandle around, for sure, but I can manage it for short distances, and I'm worried I might lose a bit of its strength if I put two pieces in there instead of one. 

There's no lateral strut across the centre of the engine bay at the moment, which is actually handy as it allows good access to the engine bay.

I could rig something up to help support the board (and removable), but tbh I want to try and keep it simple if at all possible. 

My current thinking is to replace the two boards with one big board, since the smaller one is only 85cm x 45cm anyway, and if I need to get into the weedhatch, the big board always has to come off as well. 

 

 

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I think most yards that do boa repairs will cut to size and supply the board you want. You might pay  a bit more, but there won't be any waste. I got mine this way from Calcutt. Otherwise, see if you have a local commercial vehicle body fitter/repairer, they tend to use such board for load floors.

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6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think most yards that do boa repairs will cut to size and supply the board you want. You might pay  a bit more, but there won't be any waste. I got mine this way from Calcutt. Otherwise, see if you have a local commercial vehicle body fitter/repairer, they tend to use such board for load floors.

 

Thanks Tony- I'm a bit stuck at the moment, as I'm back in Ellesmere Port and the nearest boatyard is Taylors at Chester (who I heard are not taking on new work at the moment anyway).

Tattenhall is the next option, and they said they generally have a sheet or two of hexagrip in stock, so when I'm passing them on the way south I'll pop in and get them to cut it to shape. 

They charge £140 for a sheet of hexagrip, plus about £60 per hour for the labour, and the guy thinks it will take just about an hour.

I would have had a go at the cutting myself, but it'll cost me £60 to buy a cheap circular saw, and I may never use it again- so in reality its no cheaper if I do it myself. 

 

 

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My original planks just had a steel bar in the middle as support that hooked on the other long ones and could be lifted out too get the engine out. When the nameless boatyard clowns (it's under new management now, thank god, not that I'd ever risk them again) installed my supposedly self draining deck they welded the centre one in - I think it would have to be cut out to lift the engine now.

I'm surprised there isn't a decent timber yard in Ellesmere Port. If you'll pardon the phrase, I got my first new bottom there. I think Charlie's boatyard is a car showroom now.

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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

My original planks just had a steel bar in the middle as support that hooked on the other long ones and could be lifted out too get the engine out. When the nameless boatyard clowns (it's under new management now, thank god, not that I'd ever risk them again) installed my supposedly self draining deck they welded the centre one in - I think it would have to be cut out to lift the engine now.

I'm surprised there isn't a decent timber yard in Ellesmere Port. If you'll pardon the phrase, I got my first new bottom there. I think Charlie's boatyard is a car showroom now.

 

Thanks Arthur- there are actually a couple of timber yards locally, but none of them seem to have the super-duper 'phenolic' board, which the boatyard chap told me will last far longer than normal plywood. 

(This is normally where four people comment to say they've had their regular plywood boards for 15 years).

To be honest, since a sheet of hexagrip is only £50 more than normal marine plywood, it seems to make sense to hang on until I'm passing Tattenhall in another month or so.  

The chap I spoke to was a tad sceptical about the benefits of putting an edge trim around the board, even though I explained that it was clearly scuffing and damage to the edges that had started the deterioration in my current board. 

So I think I'll ask them to to undersize the board by 2mm all round, and I'll buy some aluminium edging and put it on myself. 

So far it seems like its not going to be an easy product to find, though...

 

PS- not wanting to go all Chris Pincher on you, but I do like your stern. Mine has a side entrance door, which creates a few issues. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

So I think I'll ask them to to undersize the board by 2mm all round, and I'll buy some aluminium edging and put it on mysel

 

Give the edging aluminium channel some thought on two counts.

 

First is water is held between the channel and edge of the board earlier rot/delamination is more likely. so make sure whatever "glue" you use fills all the voids.

 

Secondly, when I screwed aluminium strip around the edge of the board on the top to hide the delaminating and edge rotting board  I found it was lethal in winter. The aluminium trapped rain/dew on the board and if it then froze it was like a skating rink.

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48 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Give the edging aluminium channel some thought on two counts.

 

First is water is held between the channel and edge of the board earlier rot/delamination is more likely. so make sure whatever "glue" you use fills all the voids.

 

Secondly, when I screwed aluminium strip around the edge of the board on the top to hide the delaminating and edge rotting board  I found it was lethal in winter. The aluminium trapped rain/dew on the board and if it then froze it was like a skating rink.

The water trap thing is a nuisance. I've cut drainage slots in mine which help, but due the incompetence of the yard who put the deck on, water pools anyway as the deck isn't level. Somehow they managed to run the drainage channels in different directions so the starboard one either doesn't drain at all or drains backwards into the bilge and the whole deck is twisted. They did it at the same time as fitting a fuel tank without a drain tap and a prop shaft so badly sealed it nearly sank the boat six months later.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The water trap thing is a nuisance. I've cut drainage slots in mine which help, but due the incompetence of the yard who put the deck on, water pools anyway as the deck isn't level. Somehow they managed to run the drainage channels in different directions so the starboard one either doesn't drain at all or drains backwards into the bilge and the whole deck is twisted. They did it at the same time as fitting a fuel tank without a drain tap and a prop shaft so badly sealed it nearly sank the boat six months later.

 

 

You are not a sock-puppet for LadyG are you ?

Your experiences of tradesmen seem very similar.

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You are not a sock-puppet for LadyG are you ?

Your experiences of tradesmen seem very similar.

It was a truly remarkable all round cock-up. When I questioned about the drainage channels, pointing out one hole at the stern was four inches higher than the other, they suggested I take all the ballast out of the front so the trim would change. I was younger then, so they got away with it.

My main engineer by choice, Eric Watson, who works at Swanley now, is, however a star, but therefore so busy he's hard to get hold of.

It's not so bad overall, just over 30 years you remember the disasters while the good ones are less fun to talk about.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Give the edging aluminium channel some thought on two counts.

 

First is water is held between the channel and edge of the board earlier rot/delamination is more likely. so make sure whatever "glue" you use fills all the voids.

 

Secondly, when I screwed aluminium strip around the edge of the board on the top to hide the delaminating and edge rotting board  I found it was lethal in winter. The aluminium trapped rain/dew on the board and if it then froze it was like a skating rink.

 

Thanks Tony, I'll take a look at plastic edging as well. 

The aluminium slightly worried me because when the soundproofing sheets are screwed on underneath, and if I combine the two sections into one bigger board, it will become a pretty heavy item, and a bit unwieldy, and if I add in sharp edges there seems a higher possibility of hurting myself or anyone standing nearby, not to mention scratching the paintwork etc. 

The edges of the board are supported by the drainage channel, which effectively runs all around the board, and the water drains off the board and into this channel, and (eventually) drops through a downtube under the rear corner of the board, and then out of the hull side. 

So there will be times in heavy rain when the channel fills and the board edges are touching the water, but most of the time I think it drains well enough that the board edges are sat on top of the channel.

Except when the draining downtube gets blocked and the channel overflows into the engine bay, as happened last Autumn....

 

It seems to me that what does the damage is the water and frequent scuffing of the edges combined. A small chunk taken out of the plastic covering will allow water in, and that starts to weaken the surrounding wood, and makes it easier for more of the plastic covering to come off when the board is scraped against something. And so on. 

So my thinking is that a hard edging of some sort will stop the plastic material coming off. To reduce the risk of trapping water underneath the edging for long periods and thus rotting the wood), I could maybe squeeze some sikaflex into the edging trim just before I put it on the board, and maybe that will fill any gaps and seal the edges. 

 

I've got to do something to seal the edges, because my board is being cut by a boatyard, and they almost certainly wont be sealing around the edges, as would happen if I bought a custom made board from the hexagrip company themselves.

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The water trap thing is a nuisance. I've cut drainage slots in mine which help

 

I drilled holes through the two lower corners of the board so any water drained into the drain channel, but by then the corners were mainly the plastic top layer and not much else. I agree that not, making nice tight mitre joints in the aluminium so there was 3mm gap would be better.

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3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Tony, I'll take a look at plastic edging as well. 

The aluminium slightly worried me because when the soundproofing sheets are screwed on underneath, and if I combine the two sections into one bigger board, it will become a pretty heavy item, and a bit unwieldy, and if I add in sharp edges there seems a higher possibility of hurting myself or anyone standing nearby, not to mention scratching the paintwork etc. 

The edges of the board are supported by the drainage channel, which effectively runs all around the board, and the water drains off the board and into this channel, and (eventually) drops through a downtube under the rear corner of the board, and then out of the hull side. 

So there will be times in heavy rain when the channel fills and the board edges are touching the water, but most of the time I think it drains well enough that the board edges are sat on top of the channel.

Except when the draining downtube gets blocked and the channel overflows into the engine bay, as happened last Autumn....

 

It seems to me that what does the damage is the water and frequent scuffing of the edges combined. A small chunk taken out of the plastic covering will allow water in, and that starts to weaken the surrounding wood, and makes it easier for more of the plastic covering to come off when the board is scraped against something. And so on. 

So my thinking is that a hard edging of some sort will stop the plastic material coming off. To reduce the risk of trapping water underneath the edging for long periods and thus rotting the wood), I could maybe squeeze some sikaflex into the edging trim just before I put it on the board, and maybe that will fill any gaps and seal the edges. 

 

I've got to do something to seal the edges, because my board is being cut by a boatyard, and they almost certainly wont be sealing around the edges, as would happen if I bought a custom made board from the hexagrip company themselves.

 

 

Most either seal the edges with Endsel or epoxy. You do no have to use U channel, how about a simple right angle section like angle iron. FWIW I stuck strips of neoprene closed cell foam to the boards undersides so that sat on the support channels. It goes a long way to stop vibrations and helps to stop sound escaping - as long as you have alternative engine room breather vents.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I drilled holes through the two lower corners of the board so any water drained into the drain channel, but by then the corners were mainly the plastic top layer and not much else. I agree that not, making nice tight mitre joints in the aluminium so there was 3mm gap would be better.

 

Sorry Tony, I skim read and overlooked the drainage issue. I do want to see if I can edging that will wrap up and over the top by at least half an inch if possible, so I will need to cut some drainage holes around it. I was never very good at ice skating in the mornings.

 

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5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Most either seal the edges with Endsel or epoxy. You do no have to use U channel, how about a simple right angle section like angle iron. FWIW I stuck strips of neoprene closed cell foam to the boards undersides so that sat on the support channels. It goes a long way to stop vibrations and helps to stop sound escaping - as long as you have alternative engine room breather vents.

 

Thanks again, that sounds like a cracking idea, strips of neoprene around the edges on the underside of the board. The soundproofing sheets I fitted have really cut down on the noise (which was pretty loud when I first got the boat), and rubber strips will help even more, as well as lifting the wood a little bit away from the draining water. 

There are vents on both sides of the engine bay so that should be ok. 

I dont suppose you have a link of the sort of thing that would be suitable? I'm guessing softer rubber will just squash down anyway, right? So would it need to be a harder rubber compound? 

 

Edited by Tony1
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5 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

If you get really stuck Watkin & Williams in Llangollen are good and will deliver to the canal, I appreciate it's not exactly where you are at the moment but any excuse for a trip up to Llan

 

That's all very well old fruit, but there are so many commoners on the Llangollen these days, its a rather frightful place. Not like it used to be in the good old days when I started boating in 2020. 

The discerning boater waits until October, by which time the riff raff have departed, and he can cruise to Llangollen and actually find somewhere to park his gin palace.

Or his lager palace, in my case. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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