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Skipton to Sawley via the Trent


Nightwatch

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1 hour ago, howardang said:

As you say, it is a legal requirement to have the correct certificate (which includes training) to operate a marine VHF. In my view it is not a sensible idea to encourage people to use a VHF without the appropriate certification. It is a requirement  as part of the boat's safety equipment in certain waters, and for the sake of a small one off inconvenience it is not a big deal to do a course and pass the certificate. 

As far as anyone being fined it is rare I agree but  I was at Hull Marina many years ago when the local DTI radio surveyor visited to check VHF installations and certification on the boats moored there, and I am reasonably sure that this included operators certification. Whether any non-compliance  led to a fine I am not aware but why run the risk, and having the appropriate training and certification may help to cut down some of the misuses of VHF in some of the busier boating locations.

I did the vhf training quite a few years ago , within weeks of buying my first boat. So yes it would be good if everyone did the training.

But I would prefer to hear some of obviously untrained calls rather than no communication at all.

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9 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Hello. Don’t beat me up too much folks.

 

In response to the proposed closure of the L&L canal in a couple of weeks, we are considering, as suggested by a couple of posters, going down Sarf via the Trent.

 

What do I need to know? I realise it’s a very open question but I seem to be cautious when covering new ground.

 

Thank you in advance.

It’s not a big deal unless the river has a lot of fresh coming down (which it doesn’t at the moment.) You go up with the flood so a “tail wind (current)” for most of the way, although you are likely to fall off it by Torksey, hence it’s best to break the journey there. A nice easy entrance to a long current-free lock cut with pontoons. By the time you get to Cromwell, the tidal effect is pretty minimal (depending on neaps vs springs).

 

But as said, many hours running at high power so make sure your engine is up to it. Have the anchor ready. No need for VHF. Don’t cut corners. Sensible people wear life jackets (we didn’t!).

 

Boating Association Trent guides are worth it: https://theboatingassociation.co.uk/index.php/store/#!/Tidal-Trent-Chart-Series-Chart-No-2-V-16/p/11809307/category=2703498

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4 hours ago, MartynG said:

I did the vhf training quite a few years ago , within weeks of buying my first boat. So yes it would be good if everyone did the training.

But I would prefer to hear some of obviously untrained calls rather than no communication at all.

With great respect, it is a legal requirement, not a  personal preference matter.

Howard

 

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16 minutes ago, howardang said:

With great respect, it is a legal requirement, not a  personal preference matter.

Howard

 

I agree its a legal requirement. But people can decide whether they wish to obey the law .

 

I often hear  people on the vhf , usually narrowboaters , who have obviously not undertaken the training. I prefer them to use the vhf rather than hear nothing,

 

I am a frequent vhf user and have not  been challenged  in 14 years of boating regarding the validity of my vhf operators  certificate . So it seems to me the chances of being prosecuted for illegal use are negligible . 

 

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12 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree its a legal requirement. But people can decide whether they wish to obey the law .

 

I often hear  people on the vhf , usually narrowboaters , who have obviously not undertaken the training. I prefer them to use the vhf rather than hear nothing,

 

I am a frequent vhf user and have not  been challenged  in 14 years of boating regarding the validity of my vhf operators  certificate . So it seems to me the chances of being prosecuted for illegal use are negligible . 

 


Maybe worth adding that in an emergency, eg if the qualified operator falls in is or otherwise incapacitated, it is permitted for unqualified persons to use the radio, 

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12 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Whatever I do, wherever I go, I cause confusion.

 

My son and family live in Maidstone, so that’s another option. But the journey to the Medway is a little too adventurous for us inexperienced canal dwellers.

Don't know, did it with some friends in a 60' Dutch barge NB some years ago.

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11 hours ago, LadyG said:

I think the rules have changed, having lost my certificate, I just applied for one.

You must know the alphabet, and understand there is no "over and out".

It's  narrowboat whatever, over, or its narrowboat whatever, out.

"Roger all that" if you understood a long message, "repeat all after xxx,  over, if you  got some of it.     

I'm sure there are YouTube tutorials.

Write out a card with essentials, it's not rocket science. Speak fairly slowly, use your callsign , eg Narrowboat Whatever at end of each message.

With several friends I did my VHF course years ago with the RYA at the National Sailing Centre on the Isle òf Wight. Vaguely remember the certificate number  being 0006. Having learnt all the  etiquette I duly tuned into channel 77 (intership). It was an education. Learnt more four letter words from fisherman in 30 minutes than I had in the previous 30 years

 

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9 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:


Maybe worth adding that in an emergency, eg if the qualified operator falls in is or otherwise incapacitated, it is permitted for unqualified persons to use the radio, 

 

 

An unqualified person can use the vhf under direct supervision of the vhf certificate holder regardless of whether there is an  emergency.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/112666/Ship-Radio-Licences-Guidance-notes-for-licensing.pdf

image.png.85922403f12394ebd2d8802e4189e4b7.png

 

 

 

Edited by MartynG
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53 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

 

An unqualified person can use the vhf under direct supervision of the vhf certificate holder regardless of whether there is an  emergency.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/112666/Ship-Radio-Licences-Guidance-notes-for-licensing.pdf

image.png.85922403f12394ebd2d8802e4189e4b7.png

 

 

 

Thank you,  I had forgotten that. 

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I think it’s all a bit academic, especially when going Keadby to Cromwell. We do have a VHF but most of the time, don’t get an answer as range is very limited due to being on a river at the lowest point of the land - no line of sight to the receiver (not helped by it being a handheld). Mobile phone calls to the locks work a lot better!

 

The only time it’s been useful for us was hearing about a large tree blocking the Selby rail swing ridge bridge on the Ouse.

Edited by nicknorman
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27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think it’s all a bit academic, especially when going Keadby to Cromwell. We do have a VHF but most of the time, don’t get an answer as range is very limited due to being on a river at the lowest point of the land - no line of sight to the receiver (not helped by it being a handheld). Mobile phone calls to the locks work a lot better!

 

The only time it’s been useful for us was hearing about a large tree blocking the Selby rail swing ridge bridge on the Ouse.

I'd agree. Dozens,  if not hundreds of boaters make trips between Keadby and Cromwell every year without VHF, often single handed, quite safely.  Mobile phones must have been none existent when the rules were applied to carry radio,  the only time I've failed to get a response from a keeper by phone has been when they were out cutting grass etc. so VHF wouldn't have made any difference. 

Every time someone new to the Trent comes on here asking sensible questions it slips back into the same old "VHF and the law" twaddle which probably puts a lot of people off exploring a new cruising route. 

Yes get an anchor,  chain and charts,  get advice from the lock keeper you're leaving from and your destination (they often conflict, come on here to check if in doubt),  make a flask and sarnies if you're single handed,  keep wet weather gear in reach and even a bucket if you're shy.. Then go and enjoy it.

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Skipton to Sawley you wont need a vhf radio I did it for years without and since getting a license only used it to let the Keadby & Cromwell lock keepers my position. A mobile does same. The Trent going upstream is quite straightforward. If you are nervous pick a neap tide and aim to stop at Torksey. It can be a bit daunting on a big spring but I prefer those because I like to get from Keadby to Newark in a day. We will be travelling that way about the 23rd of July. If you are still in Yorkshire (and let's be honest the local C&RT like to keep boaters here) you are welcome to join us. 

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1 hour ago, noddyboater said:

 

Every time someone new to the Trent comes on here asking sensible questions it slips back into the same old "VHF and the law" twaddle which probably puts a lot of people off exploring a new cruising route. 

 

I don't care a jot whether you think it is twaddle to mention VHF requirements on the Trent, Ouse etc. I do care when people give wrong advice to boaters asking genuine questions. I am sure you know as well as I do that carriage of VHF is compulsory under the ABP Bye Laws on the Trent up to Gainsborough, and the Ouse as far as  Skelton Bridge. Carriage of VHF these waters is there for the safety of boaters, and although it may be used very infrequently, it is needed it may help to get someone out of trouble. You may wish to pick and choose what rules you take seriously and which you ignore but at least give those who ask for advice the full information so that they too can make their own decisions.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, howardang said:

I don't care a jot whether you think it is twaddle to mention VHF requirements on the Trent, Ouse etc. I do care when people give wrong advice to boaters asking genuine questions. I am sure you know as well as I do that carriage of VHF is compulsory under the ABP Bye Laws on the Trent up to Gainsborough, and the Ouse as far as  Skelton Bridge. Carriage of VHF these waters is there for the safety of boaters, and although it may be used very infrequently, when it is needed it may help to get someone out of trouble. You may wish to pick and choose what rules you take seriously and which you ignore but at least give those who ask for advice the full information so that they too can make their own decisions.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, howardang said:

I don't care a jot whether you think it is twaddle to mention VHF requirements on the Trent, Ouse etc. I do care when people give wrong advice to boaters asking genuine questions. I am sure you know as well as I do that carriage of VHF is compulsory under the ABP Bye Laws on the Trent up to Gainsborough, and the Ouse as far as  Skelton Bridge. Carriage of VHF in these waters is there for the safety of boaters, and although it may be used very infrequently, when it is needed it may help to get someone out of trouble. You may wish to pick and choose what rules you take seriously and which you ignore but at least give those who ask for advice the full information so that they too can make their own decisions.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't think it's twaddle to mention it, I think it's twaddle to drone on about it in any thread that mentions the Trent. 

I'd be more interested in getting the other points across such as anything fuel related that is likely to put you in a position to need help.

I also DO care when people give the wrong advice,  like taking the lock keepers advice as gospel when they might have never been on a boat or started the job yesterday. 

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1 hour ago, howardang said:

I don't care a jot whether you think it is twaddle to mention VHF requirements on the Trent, Ouse etc. I do care when people give wrong advice to boaters asking genuine questions. I am sure you know as well as I do that carriage of VHF is compulsory under the ABP Bye Laws on the Trent up to Gainsborough, and the Ouse as far as  Skelton Bridge. Carriage of VHF these waters is there for the safety of boaters, and although it may be used very infrequently, it is needed it may help to get someone out of trouble. You may wish to pick and choose what rules you take seriously and which you ignore but at least give those who ask for advice the full information so that they too can make their own decisions.

 

Howard

 

Well to be pedantic, the bylaw actually says that the skipper must keep a continuous listening watch on VHF. It does not say he must be able to transmit. You do not need a licence to listen to VHF.

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4 hours ago, Midnight said:

Skipton to Sawley you wont need a vhf radio I did it for years without and since getting a license only used it to let the Keadby & Cromwell lock keepers my position. A mobile does same. The Trent going upstream is quite straightforward. If you are nervous pick a neap tide and aim to stop at Torksey. It can be a bit daunting on a big spring but I prefer those because I like to get from Keadby to Newark in a day. We will be travelling that way about the 23rd of July. If you are still in Yorkshire (and let's be honest the local C&RT like to keep boaters here) you are welcome to join us. 

Thank you. I may take you up on that offer. As you are aware, we are in Skipton, can’t leave here until at least next Monday because of the stoppage at Bradley. Where are you presently. PM if you prefer. My name is Martyn by the way. We’ll just the Martyn bit.

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