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Skipton to Sawley via the Trent


Nightwatch

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Hello. Don’t beat me up too much folks.

 

In response to the proposed closure of the L&L canal in a couple of weeks, we are considering, as suggested by a couple of posters, going down Sarf via the Trent.

 

What do I need to know? I realise it’s a very open question but I seem to be cautious when covering new ground.

 

Thank you in advance.

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1 minute ago, Nightwatch said:

Could someone please change the title of this thread to read, Sawley rather than Swales please. Otherwise it don’t make sense!

 

I thought you meant S. Wales and were going to visit Tim!

 

If you edit your original first post you can alter the title yourself by clicking on it.

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Whatever I do, wherever I go, I cause confusion.

 

My son and family live in Maidstone, so that’s another option. But the journey to the Medway is a little too adventurous for us inexperienced canal dwellers.

Edited by Nightwatch
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There is an active and lively group offering advice about the tidal Trent (above Keadby).  Links below, in terms of preparation I would buy the charts from the Boating Association, check your anchor and the cleanliness of your fuel. 

http://trentlink.org.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/666937220961360

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
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Caution is good. Fuel and cooling systems in good order so if you havent done those services for a while then sooner is better than later. It makes for a stressful passage if your engine has played up the day before!

Anchor-never used one but having one definetley makes you happy.

And I like having Sissons charts available from The Boating Association. If nothing else it gives you something to do following exactly where you are.

 

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You should look up the tide times in advance as this may influence your date of travel.

https://tides4fishing.com/uk/england/keadby

Assuming you will join the Trent at Keadby.

Avoid morning rush hour an evening school leaving times  as they don't like to swing the road bridge at those times.

You go soon after the flood and the tide carries you up the river.

eg tomorrow 5am would be a good time to go

image.png.8321986926fee76cbd9c1c4a7d255bdf.png

 

The chart for the tidal Trent is essential as is a vhf radio and the ability to use it . 

Lifejackets should be worn.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

There is an active and lively group offering advice about the tidal Trent (above Keadby).  Links below, in terms of preparation I would buy the charts from the Boating Association, check your anchor and the cleanliness of your fuel. 

http://trentlink.org.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/666937220961360

Joined, and reading.

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I had a long chat with both lockkeepers before my journey, I do have VHF, but I think I used the mobile. I had near perfect weather Force three is a bit choppy, when wind over tide, but I'd draw the line there.

Avoid Springs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Is it compulsory to have and operate VHF radio. Don’t you have to complete a course to use a VHF radio?

I think the rules have changed, having lost my certificate, I just applied for one.

You must know the alphabet, and understand there is no "over and out".

It's  narrowboat whatever, over, or its narrowboat whatever, out.

"Roger all that" if you understood a long message, "repeat all after xxx,  over, if you  got some of it.     

I'm sure there are YouTube tutorials.

Write out a card with essentials, it's not rocket science. Speak fairly slowly, use your callsign , eg Narrowboat Whatever at end of each message.

Edited by LadyG
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The Trent is perfectly safe if you stay in the channel and don’t cut corners. There may be some high tides coming up soon where you can run from Keadby all the way to Cromwell, a long day though. I’ve never used or been asked to show a VHF radio, anchor or life jacket, but have all should I need to. Once you do the Trent you will ask yourself what is all the fuss about? I don’t know why people are intimidated by it. 
 There’s usually a few boats travelling out of Keadby, pair up with one that has done it and follow his line(if he knows it) good luck and don’t worry, you will be fine👍ine 

Edited by PD1964
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1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Is it compulsory to have and operate VHF radio. Don’t you have to complete a course to use a VHF radio?


The latest advice from ABP, to the coordinator of Trentlink:

 

https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/  

"A discussion with the Duty Officer at Humber Vessel Traffic Services (VTS) on 9th February 2022 indicated that craft proceeding downstream only as far as Keadby Lock that are not fitted with VHF should call Humber VTS by telephone (01482 327171) with their ETA at Keadby,1 hour before passing under Keadby bridge. They will then be notified of any shipping movements between Keadby Bridge and the Lock.
 

Humber VTS expect that vessels passing downstream of Keadby will comply with ABP Byelaws (set out below)."
 

I certainly use my VHF on the Trent, but the case for it is much less strong than, for example, on the much busier Thames.

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58 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Joined, and reading.


The Facebook group has a lot of good info in it, if you follow that you will be well prepared.  Much of the discussion on there at the moment is with regards to the very low water levels on the tidal Trent, which is causing issues when going north from Torksey to Keadby.   As you will be going the other way it should not impact you too much, but when you call the Keadby lock keeper a few days before passage he will no doubt fill you in on any issues.  The normal way to do it is to go Keadby to Torksey, and then overnight on the pontoons in the lock cut, then next day go Torksey to Cromwell.  You will want to get the chart book before you go, and you basically follow the red line.  We have Google maps in satelite view running on a phone so you know exactly where you are with respect to the charts, which use the Google images,  keeps your crew busy calling out where you need to be on the river all the time!

 

54 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Is it compulsory to have and operate VHF radio. Don’t you have to complete a course to use a VHF radio?

Technically ABP, who are the navigation authority downstream of Gainsborough, require at least two on board and VHF, monitoring their channels, not just 74 for the CRT locks.  I think ABP may have softened their stance a bit and you may be allowed to contact then by phone if you don’t have VHF, you should check their web site if you plan to do that.  If you have VHF then basically you never actually contact ABP.  You need to go on a 1 day course, which is a fun day out, to get you operators licence for short range VHF, the licence for the radio is free and you just get that online from OFCOM.

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6 minutes ago, john6767 said:

You will want to get the chart book before you go, and you basically follow the red line.  

 

I was based on the Trent for about 8 years and never once saw the 'red'line'. I think someone must have stolen it years ago. or, it got run-over and sliced into little bits,

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37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was based on the Trent for about 8 years and never once saw the 'red'line'. I think someone must have stolen it years ago. or, it got run-over and sliced into little bits,

It would make it a lot simpler if they painted the red line onto the water, one for the suggestion box 😀

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:


The latest advice from ABP, to the coordinator of Trentlink:

 

https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/  

"A discussion with the Duty Officer at Humber Vessel Traffic Services (VTS) on 9th February 2022 indicated that craft proceeding downstream only as far as Keadby Lock that are not fitted with VHF should call Humber VTS by telephone (01482 327171) with their ETA at Keadby,1 hour before passing under Keadby bridge. They will then be notified of any shipping movements between Keadby Bridge and the Lock.
 

Humber VTS expect that vessels passing downstream of Keadby will comply with ABP Byelaws (set out below)."
 

I certainly use my VHF on the Trent, but the case for it is much less strong than, for example, on the much busier Thames.

The one time I tried to contact keadby Lockie by vhf i got no response despite being able to see him!

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2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The one time I tried to contact keadby Lockie by vhf i got no response despite being able to see him!

I've had the gates closed on me whilst ferrying across the river by the Keadby keeper. 

His excuse was he "didn't know it was the boat booked in" 

 

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The trip I'm currently on, left Keadby  a few weeks ago at 6-10 am, was through Cromwell by 2-30 and moored in Newark, above Town lock by 4-30.

 

I had booked well in advance with both Keadby and Cromwell lockies and also rang Cromwell a couple of times during the cruise.

 

As people have said, don't cut the corners and get a pace your engine is happy with, for me it's 1600 revs.

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3 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Is it compulsory to have and operate VHF radio. Don’t you have to complete a course to use a VHF radio?

Its a legal requirement to have a vhf operators certificate and to obtain that you do need to do a course.

https://www.rya.org.uk/training/courses/marine-radio-short-range-certificate-course-srcc

It is evident that many people don't bother with the vhf course and I have not heard of anyone being fined. Better to have a vhf  and no certificate than no  vhf.

But you do need to know how to correctly use the radio. 

 

You are not  going to hear  other boat/lock keeper conversations on  a phone .

 

Coming out of Keadby spring tides are better than neaps as you get a bigger  push up the river - like free fuel.

But for the journey proposed I would go with the best weather option.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LadyG said:

I had a long chat with both lockkeepers before my journey, I do have VHF, but I think I used the mobile. I had near perfect weather Force three is a bit choppy, when wind over tide, but I'd draw the line there.

Avoid Springs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually I have found that from Keadby going southwards a good big spring tide is very beneficial. It gives you a good big push in the direction you want to go.

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36 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Its a legal requirement to have a vhf operators certificate and to obtain that you do need to do a course.

https://www.rya.org.uk/training/courses/marine-radio-short-range-certificate-course-srcc

It is evident that many people don't bother with the vhf course and I have not heard of anyone being fined. Better to have a vhf  and no certificate than no  vhf.

But you do need to know how to correctly use the radio. 

 

You are not  going to hear  other boat/lock keeper conversations on  a phone .

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you say, it is a legal requirement to have the correct certificate (which includes training) to operate a marine VHF. In my view it is not a sensible idea to encourage people to use a VHF without the appropriate certification. It is a requirement  as part of the boat's safety equipment in certain waters, and for the sake of a small one off inconvenience it is not a big deal to do a course and pass the certificate. 

As far as anyone being fined it is rare I agree but  I was at Hull Marina many years ago when the local DTI radio surveyor visited to check VHF installations and certification on the boats moored there, and I am reasonably sure that this included operators certification. Whether any non-compliance  led to a fine I am not aware but why run the risk, and having the appropriate training and certification may help to cut down some of the misuses of VHF in some of the busier boating locations.

 

Howard.

 

Howard

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When travelling with plenty of water -  especially a spring tide, there's really no need to follow the marked channel religiously on a narrow boat.  In fact it can cause problems,  like tight bends with "boils" that can lead you to a tangle with the willows if you're not careful.  

The middle is fine, but obviously this isn't applicable at anything approaching low water. 

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