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Are boaters getting more selfish or is it just the world in general


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I guess it depends on how argumentative you wish to be.

 

A 'couple' of legal definitions from "Law Insider" :

 

1) Seagoing vessel means a Departmental vessel providing full crew, amenities and accommodation for an overnight stay or any commercial fishing vessel on which Employees may be required to stay overnight at sea and excludes a dinghy or trailer boat unless otherwise approved by the Executive Director Research.

 

2) Seagoing vessel means any vessel or craft designed or adopted for navigation at sea.

 

3) Seagoing vessel means a vessel permitted to undertake maritime or coastal navigation and used principally for such navigation;

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2) Seagoing vessel means any vessel or craft designed or adopted for navigation at sea.

 

A few years ago I recall an article in one of the canal magazines of a canal boat that had gone to (I think)  Caernavon via the Menai Straits.  The fact that at least one canal boat has successfully made  a sea passage would not mean that all canal boats were sea-going, especially as the boat had temporarily been adapted to prevent swamping, and passage had been made during a state of the tide when it was known that the water in the Menai Straits would be calm.

 

p.s. However, taken literally, it would appear to mean that the regs would apply to a boat thus adapted while it remained in the adapted  state.

Edited by Ronaldo47
ps added
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51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is quite a high mileage of canals suitable for boats over "7 feet beam", and, if there are no 'seagoing vessels' under 7' 6" beam then those narrow-canals would, presumably, not be subject to Colregs.

 

Canals capable of accomodating seagoing vessels of (say 10 or 12 or 14 feet beam) and suitable draft would be subject to Colregs.

Thank you.

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5 hours ago, Jerra said:

Out of interest how many sea going vessels with less than 7 foot beam have a shallow enough draft to use narrow canals?

There are some racing type yachts with lifting keels, though they are modern hi tech beasts, not likely to venture on to canals.  I've seen some  smaller fixed keels on the northern commercial canals, some are dual purpose vessels, others just sort of ended up on the inland waterways, possibly liveaboard for the more hardy type.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I guess it depends on how argumentative you wish to be.

 

A 'couple' of legal definitions from "Law Insider" :

 

1) Seagoing vessel means a Departmental vessel providing full crew, amenities and accommodation for an overnight stay or any commercial fishing vessel on which Employees may be required to stay overnight at sea and excludes a dinghy or trailer boat unless otherwise approved by the Executive Director Research.

 

2) Seagoing vessel means any vessel or craft designed or adopted for navigation at sea.

 

3) Seagoing vessel means a vessel permitted to undertake maritime or coastal navigation and used principally for such navigation;

Does Chris Cobourn come into the conversation?

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If the Colregs don't saying anything about composting toilets they have no relevance to canal life.

That will do for me

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Do they really count as sea going "vessels" if they do I have yet to see one which conforms to all the colregs.

 

Which of the rules do you think they don't conform to?

 

They certainly are covered by the definitions:

 

1(a)  These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.

 

3(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft,

WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281965/msn1781.pdf

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9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Which of the rules do you think they don't conform to?

 

They certainly are covered by the definitions:

 

1(a)  These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.

 

3(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft,

WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281965/msn1781.pdf

 

Aren't navigation lights a requirement?

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14 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Aren't navigation lights a requirement?

 

Yes.  A torch is sufficient though.

 

25.d.(ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Yes.  A torch is sufficient though.

 

25.d.(ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

I have never seen a sea canoe with a torch outside the spray deck nor have I seen a method of sending sound signals outside the spray deck.    Most watertight compartments on any sea canoe I have used are inaccessible while sat in the cockpit.

 

Where is this equipment kept?

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2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have never seen a sea canoe with a torch outside the spray deck nor have I seen a method of sending sound signals outside the spray deck.    Most watertight compartments on any sea canoe I have used are inaccessible while sat in the cockpit.

 

Where is this equipment kept?

We only paddled in the daylight, of course on operations you paddled at night and torches defo would not be used

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2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

We only paddled in the daylight, of course on operations you paddled at night and torches defo would not be used

Where did you keep the method of giving sound signals.

 

I would also question if a Kayak fitted the description of vessel, my dictionary says:

 

Vessel

 

a ship or large boat

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18 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have never seen a sea canoe with a torch outside the spray deck nor have I seen a method of sending sound signals outside the spray deck.    Most watertight compartments on any sea canoe I have used are inaccessible while sat in the cockpit.

 

Where is this equipment kept?

 

A headtorch and a whistle on a lanyard if your buoyancy aid doesn't have one already.

 

13 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I would also question if a Kayak fitted the description of vessel, my dictionary says:

 

Vessel

 

a ship or large boat

 

See the definition I posted above.

 

3(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

 

I think you're just trying to be awkward now, so I'm out.  

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47 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have never seen a sea canoe with a torch outside the spray deck nor have I seen a method of sending sound signals outside the spray deck.    Most watertight compartments on any sea canoe I have used are inaccessible while sat in the cockpit.

 

Where is this equipment kept?

 

 

Whistles (or other sound making devices) are usually attached to lifejackets.

 

Watertight torches are readily available (mine will work in up to 100 metres of water) they can be held in place on lifejacket straps, onto the paddle etc by simple 1" cut-offs of bicycle inner tubes (or buy the factory version - called Snoopy-loops - at around £2 each)

 

 

See the source image

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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24 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

A headtorch and a whistle on a lanyard if your buoyancy aid doesn't have one already.

 

 

See the definition I posted above.

 

3(a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

 

I think you're just trying to be awkward now, so I'm out.  

Using that definition there is barely a puddle or gutter in the country which doesn't come under Colregs.  It is strange that say the Lakes don't insist on boats they give permission to use the lake have all the equipment e.g. the hire boats both motor and rowing.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Watertight torches are readily available (mine will work in up to 100 metres of water) they can be held in place on lifejacket straps, onto the paddle etc by simple 1" cut-offs of bicycle inner tubes (or buy the factory version - called Snoopy-loops - at around £2 each)

 

 

See the source image

Do you honestly feel that the suggestion of a whistle would be heard particularly by anything with a motor?

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