Rudder stop angle

[Guest]

Big boats have bow AND stern thrusters.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[howardang]

1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Big boats have bow AND stern thrusters.

 

 

 

 

We have recently sold our share in a 57 ft narrow boat boat built in 2008 which was fitted with both bow and stern hydraulic bow thrusters. I suppose that will bring out the comments.😊
 

Howard

 

 

 

 

 

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, howardang said:

 

 

We have recently sold our share in a 57 ft narrow boat boat built in 2008 which was fitted with both bow and stern hydraulic bow thrusters. I suppose that will bring out the comments.😊
 

Howard

 

 

 

 

 

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

 

 

We spent several day cruising the T&M alng with a guy on a boat called 'Victoria Plum"

 

He was seriously disabled and had the boat set up for remote control via a radio controller - he had both bow and stern thrusters so he could operate the boat into and out of the locks whislt he was working the gates / paddles.

 

He had a 'trailer' (Called Victoria Plums Garage ) which held his disability buggy - it lifted out of the garage on a hydraulic lift and down the ramp. He could magae a few steps to get from his boat to the buggy.

 

He was very independent and insisted on doing his share of the locks.

 

There are always 'special cases' and he was more than justified in using thrusters as he could not get on and off the boat and work the locks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[howardang]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

We spent several day cruising the T&M alng with a guy on a boat called 'Victoria Plum"

 

He was seriously disabled and had the boat set up for remote control via a radio controller - he had both bow and stern thrusters so he could operate the boat into and out of the locks whislt he was working the gates / paddles.

 

He had a 'trailer' (Called Victoria Plums Garage ) which held his disability buggy - it lifted out of the garage on a hydraulic lift and down the ramp. He could magae a few steps to get from his boat to the buggy.

 

He was very independent and insisted on doing his share of the locks.

 

There are always 'special cases' and he was more than justified in using thrusters as he could not get on and off the boat and work the locks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds like he is not letting his disability get in the way of his enjoyment of the waterways, and it!s good to hear.

 

No special case with me, however, rather I just liked the boat and it was already fitted with two thrusters when we decided to buy a share, and we never regretted it. I can assure the naysayers that I can modestly say that I can handle a boat as well as anybody ,and without thrusters, but I use them to make boat handling even easier. Those who think it is wimpish are missing out on an extra boating experience:- their loss.

 

Howard

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by howardang

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

 

 

We have recently sold our share in a 57 ft narrow boat boat built in 2008 which was fitted with both bow and stern hydraulic bow thrusters. I suppose that will bring out the comments.😊

Not many like that about.

I picked up one with the same setup from Ventnor and took it to Crick. Its just a very different sort of fun to something more Trad. Had a great time going sideways and got some very unflattering comments up the Braunston flight regarding my abilities 😀

[ditchcrawler]

On 04/07/2022 at 12:14, nicknorman said:

When I was just starting to use the waterways, no narrowboats had bow thrusters, or none that I came across anyway. They can on occasion be useful I suppose but set against that are the maintenance issues (batteries, charging at a distance, motors jamming or failing, and worst of all bow thruster tube corrosion). We don’t have one and in the 11 years of ownership I can only think of a couple of occasions when i really wished we did have one. As you say, it is a personal choice but personally I can’t see the need.

When I started non had electrical systems that looked anything like you have, I am sure if they were still around some would say the same about engines. Things change

[Bargebuilder]

On 02/07/2022 at 01:02, blackrose said:

 

I see narrowboats where the rudder turns nearly 90 deg each way before hitting the stop. How are they to use? Without stops at to limit the working arc of the rudder do you just get to know where your max turning angle is before the rudder stalls? 

Perhaps they had their rudder modified to a Schilling type design as I did.

 

For not a lot of money, a good welder can dramatically improve the performance of a flat plate rudder which starts to lose effectiveness at around 35⁰ each side, to one that gives dramatic lateral thrust at a full 70⁰ each side. Having a Schilling rudder is very much like having a stern thruster, allowing one to move the stern sideways. It makes manoeuvring much easier and turning within ones own length a possibility. They have no detrimental effect on directional stability in either forward or astern, but make reversing easier as they provide lateral thrust more effectively when needed for correcting ones course.

 

I'm surprised that more aren't fitted; they are excellent!

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Perhaps they had their rudder modified to a Schilling type design as I did.

 

For not a lot of money, a good welder can dramatically improve the performance of a flat plate rudder which starts to lose effectiveness at around 35⁰ each side, to one that gives dramatic lateral thrust at a full 70⁰ each side. Having a Schilling rudder is very much like having a stern thruster, allowing one to move the stern sideways. It makes manoeuvring much easier and turning within ones own length a possibility. They have no detrimental effect on directional stability in either forward or astern, but make reversing easier as they provide lateral thrust more effectively when needed for correcting ones course.

 

I'm surprised that more aren't fitted; they are excellent!

 

Agreed -- but when I posted something similar there was a shower of comments on the lines of "why change what isn't broken, I can handle my boat just fine with a flat plate rudder". Luddism is alive and well on CWDF... 😉

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

12 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Agreed -- but when I posted something similar there was a shower of comments on the lines of "why change what isn't broken, I can handle my boat just fine with a flat plate rudder". Luddism is alive and well on CWDF... 😉

 

 

You'll probably agree too then, that a Schilling rudder is simply an improved rudder design, it has no additional moving parts, it just offers better performance. A bow thruster is a bit different, it can fail and although it makes life easier, a competent and practiced helm is able to handle his or her vessel without one (our sort of boat anyway). If one always relies on a bow or stern thruster and it fails, then the lack of practice/expertise in manoeuvring at close quarters is lost, just when you need it most, perhaps when in Portishead marina and surrounded by shiny grp gin palaces worth many hundreds of thousands of pounds.

12 hours ago, IanD said:

"why change what isn't broken, I can handle my boat just fine with a flat plate rudder".

That may indeed be true, but clearly if they need a bow thruster then it isn't! 

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

You'll probably agree too then, that a Schilling rudder is simply an improved rudder design, it has no additional moving parts, it just offers better performance. A bow thruster is a bit different, it can fail and although it makes life easier, a competent and practiced helm is able to handle his or her vessel without one (our sort of boat anyway). If one always relies on a bow or stern thruster and it fails, then the lack of practice/expertise in manoeuvring at close quarters is lost, just when you need it most, perhaps when in Portishead marina and surrounded by shiny grp gin palaces worth many hundreds of thousands of pounds.

That may indeed be true, but clearly if they need a bow thruster then it isn't! 

Agreed completely about the Schilling rudder, it's an elegant and far better solution than a stern thruster,, and I also don't understand why they're not more common -- except maybe not being "traditional"...

 

A bow thruster however can do things that a Schilling rudder can't, such as moving the bows across when you don't have space to swing the stern over -- no matter how competent a steerer you are... 😉

 

I don't think a bow thruster is *needed*, but there are situations I've been in -- usually involving crosswinds and moored boats -- when having one would be have been quite helpful...

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

If one always relies on a bow or stern thruster and it fails, then the lack of practice/expertise in manoeuvring at close quarters is lost, just when you need it most, perhaps when in Portishead marina and surrounded by shiny grp gin palaces worth many hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

The old joke in the Med is if your engine/steering fails coming into harbour, aim for something cheap.

 

Anything under ten million euros is a good target ...