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Who are the elite boat builders?


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3 minutes ago, Trawler said:

The biggest issue I struggle with  of the traditional stern is when as a couple you want to stand together and have a cup of tea/coffee and talk as one cruises.  This doesn’t apply for a solo cruiser. The sociable bow area is more for when one is moored of course. Also, for longer cruising days the helms person is standing for hours at a time, though one can sit in the hatch opening if limber enough, though this isn’t unique to the traditional stern.  

Which is why I chose a semi-trad stern, with seating for 4 people, the one for the steerer being raised (also a folding bike locker) so you can take the weight off your feet without sitting too low down...

 

lockers stern.jpg

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6 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Hallelujah! I thought it was just me...! Letting someone 60' away from you, who has no control, jump from a part of the boat you can't see, onto something you can't see, across a gap you can't see doesn't seem an entirely well thought out course of action to me.

Agreed 

 

incidentally on my larger ocean vessel, where docking is much more important and dangerous as one can’t wrestle 80 tons into place, attaching a line in the wrong way can cause the boat to pivot, and anchoring involves 400’ of 12mm chain, communication is important, sight lines are obstructed (even with multiple helm stations) and yelling won’t work. Hence many of us use these aids

 

https://eartec.com/ultralite/

 

They are called marriage savers here. 
 

not a traditional look though!

 

 

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Which is why I chose a semi-trad stern, with seating for 4 people, the one for the steerer being raised (also a folding bike locker) so you can take the weight off your feet without sitting too low down...

 

lockers stern.jpg

That solves that problem. 
can the companion see over the sides while underway (the bench being tall enough)?  It appears so. 

Edited by Trawler
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59 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

As usual, it's essential to have a sense of proportion here. I don't know if there has *ever* been a single case of a boat catching fire in a lock, this (almost?) always happens when moored. Maybe I should also think about an extra-strong reinforced roof in case of a meteorite strike? 😉

 

In my case there is also no gas on the boat, and the chance of a diesel fire (generator or boiler) is extremely small.

 

Maybe you should suggest to the BSS that we don't need fire extinguishers or a boat safety certificate because you've never known anyone whose boat caught fire.

Not everything in this world is about you or your experiences.

 

I have seen a boat on fire it started after refueling, it burst into flames, if anyone had been aboard there is no way they could have got out off the stern.

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

As usual, it's essential to have a sense of proportion here. I don't know if there has *ever* been a single case of a boat catching fire in a lock, this (almost?) always happens when moored. Maybe I should also think about an extra-strong reinforced roof in case of a meteorite strike? 😉

 

In my case there is also no gas on the boat, and the chance of a diesel fire (generator or boiler) is extremely small.

I'd be more concerned about getting caught in a lock and the boat start sinking stern first with someone inside the cabin that are unable to escape via the bows.  Might be a rare occurrence but personally not a risk I would be happy to take with my wife inside the boat.

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13 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I'd be more concerned about getting caught in a lock and the boat start sinking stern first with someone inside the cabin that are unable to escape via the bows.  Might be a rare occurrence but personally not a risk I would be happy to take with my wife inside the boat.

 

Ah, I hadn't realised those blokes who stay on the boat while the woman works the lock were being chivalrous rather than lazy!

 

"It's all for your own safety, dear ..."

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18 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I'd be more concerned about getting caught in a lock and the boat start sinking stern first with someone inside the cabin that are unable to escape via the bows.  Might be a rare occurrence but personally not a risk I would be happy to take with my wife inside the boat.

 

 

I mentioned this in another thread a few days ago.

We  were on a 3 month cruise with the 'next door neighbour' in the marina.

 

He entered the lock to go up, wife opened the paddles to fill the lock and the bow started to rise - but - the stern didn't . His wife and my wife were stood by the gates chatting and did not notice (yes we know they should be concentrating) so I ran and closed the paddles and opened the bottom paddles.

 

Long story short :

 

He kept a short length of rope on the stern so he can just jump off and attach a nappy pin etc quickly.

The rope had fallen of the back and the gates had closed trapping the rope. as the lock started to fill  the bow started to rise but the stern was held down. We got it sorted just as the  water started to come over 'the back'.

 

 

No doubt it nener happened because someone hasn't had it happen to them !!

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Ah, I hadn't realised those blokes who stay on the boat while the woman works the lock were being chivalrous rather than lazy!

 

"It's all for your own safety, dear ..."

I'll often single hand a lock if we do an early start and Mrs-M will still be in the boat getting ready.  When she was recovering from a broken knee and couldn't get on and off easily I single handed all the locks and wouldn't let anyone else operate a paddle without my supervision.

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We both single hand sometimes when the other is doing other jobs.

Its a safe way of maintaining skill set acquired over years.

You never know when you might need them.

Back in the  early 90s I got an urgent call in to work, started the engine and shot off to work. Came back to where we had agreed to meet, no boat. Eventually found ‘home’ miles back down cut.

Big discussion about getting a second cell phone, bigger one about fitting electric start. ( and not stalling the engine)

She won on the electric start, but second phone was a different proposition in those days.

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Accidents will happen.

I got a lesson at Bunbury a fair few years back. Nice sunny weekend with loads of onlookers, everyone enjoying themselves. There were a few boats waiting to go up or down and lots of 'helpers'.I can't remember if the vollies were on too, but there were lots of people and lots of noise.

There were 3 boats in the locks, 2 of us going up and 1 coming down. As we were about to do the shuffle I felt my bows grounding on the middle cill so (thankfully) I reversed. The poor woman in the hire boat coming down was grounding and had dozens of bits of advice shouted at her.  Someone opened top paddle so crisis averted but the issue was that one of the bottom paddles wasn't wound down fully so the locks were draining. I was singlehanding and it was difficult to get anyones attention re bottom paddle. Everyone was concentrating on what was happening with the young woman hirer. I shouted my head off and someone came and lowered paddle, and we all got through.

It can sometimes be difficult to take control at locks with lots of 'helpers'. I'm sure plenty of us have had someone 'helpfully' open a paddle too quickly. 

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8 minutes ago, redwing said:

I was singlehanding and it was difficult to get anyones attention re bottom paddle

 

Doesn't your horn work?  That's one of the things it's there for!

 

Also, on further thought, weren't you stood next to the offending paddle on your boat if you were ascending?

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20 hours ago, Jimbo435 said:

Tiny example: If we wanted, as I have seen on some narrowboats, a lengthwise King bed tucked in the bow with an escape hatch window above, and I am thinking I would only move the boat on average one day in eight, am I going to be cussing at that decision when I need to send the missus to the bow in the pouring rain along the gunwales or having to stop the boat to allow her to do that off the towpath?  No way I could know that now.  But I would hope some inquiries on forums and at the boat builders would give me an idea what I am trading off for that "almost like home" bed.

That's actually the perfect example of why the "second hand first, your second boat will be more likely to have the design choices you actually want rather than the ones you thought you want" approach work. I mean, I have a boat that I can walk through the middle of but usually walk down the gunnel, so the full width fixed bed in the bow would make a lot of sense to me personally. But you and your wife might conclude after a few weeks boating yourself that you really don't like walking down gunnels. That's very much something you discover for yourself. And at least if you discover the bed in the bow is a bad fit after buying second hand, the boat can be sold for roughly what you paid for it whilst you order a dream boat with a walk through arrangement and folding bed, instead of doing it the other way round and losing 40% of what you paid on the resale...

 

Similarly, If your objective is to see the British countryside and youre aiming to be around in the warmer months (i assume from the plan to spend ~6m in the UK that youre aware of our winters!), I suspect you'll end up moving a boat more often than once every eight days (you might need that just to access facilities) but again how often you move is something that's personal to you which you really only find out when you get the boat (I thought I'd move less than I actually do. Other people discover it's harder work than they thought or they really like staying in marinas.)

 

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5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Doesn't your horn work?  That's one of the things it's there for!

Yep, but didnt think of that at the time.One of the lessons learnt.  As I said everyone was concentrating on the poor woman in upper chamber and opening the top paddles averted the crisis. My point was more about things can sometimes happen beyond your control. I'm now more assertive but it can still be tricky when there are lots of 'helpers' who 'know' what they are doing.

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34 minutes ago, redwing said:

Accidents will happen.

I got a lesson at Bunbury a fair few years back. Nice sunny weekend with loads of onlookers, everyone enjoying themselves. There were a few boats waiting to go up or down and lots of 'helpers'.I can't remember if the vollies were on too, but there were lots of people and lots of noise.

There were 3 boats in the locks, 2 of us going up and 1 coming down. As we were about to do the shuffle I felt my bows grounding on the middle cill so (thankfully) I reversed. The poor woman in the hire boat coming down was grounding and had dozens of bits of advice shouted at her.  Someone opened top paddle so crisis averted but the issue was that one of the bottom paddles wasn't wound down fully so the locks were draining. I was singlehanding and it was difficult to get anyones attention re bottom paddle. Everyone was concentrating on what was happening with the young woman hirer. I shouted my head off and someone came and lowered paddle, and we all got through.

It can sometimes be difficult to take control at locks with lots of 'helpers'. I'm sure plenty of us have had someone 'helpfully' open a paddle too quickly. 

I had a similar situation stuck on the bottom of one of the Chester staircase locks, just out of reach of a ladder, after a crew coming the other way had kindly helped me with a gate and then managed to drain both my pound and the pound below.

 

After quite a bit of shouting, it became clear that only one of the helpful crew members had operated a lock before, and she was busy wondering why her own boat was falling instead of rising...

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5 hours ago, Rob-M said:

I'd be more concerned about getting caught in a lock and the boat start sinking stern first with someone inside the cabin that are unable to escape via the bows.  Might be a rare occurrence but personally not a risk I would be happy to take with my wife inside the boat.

The most common problem by far is getting the stern hung up on the cill when going down -- in which case the bow sinks first, so you escape via the stern, so the forward side doors are irrelevant...

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Another name to add to the 'elite' builder list is Phil Trotter at Saul Junction. 

 

His "Northwich Trader" boats are brutally handsome beasts and superbly built. More 'industrial' in style than blingy like a Hudson, which some prefer. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, IanD said:

The most common problem by far is getting the stern hung up on the cill when going down -- in which case the bow sinks first, so you escape via the stern, so the forward side doors are irrelevant...

 

You do have some strange criteria for determining your choice of access and egress😀

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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36 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

You do have some strange criteria for determining your choice of access and egress😀

 

 

Don't understand -- if you're going down a lock and get hung up on the cill that'll be at the stern, surely? So with bows sinking in a lock, what use is a forward exit, especially side doors?

 

The reason regulations require two exit routes is mainly fires, and these almost always happen when the boat is moored. In which case a window big enough to be an emergency exit (like the canaltime boats?) is OK, also side doors without a hatch, either suffices as an emergency exit.

 

The side doors are not intended to be used routinely for entrance or exit, they're for light/ventilation/swans and emergencies.

 

Either way, the hatches meet the regulations and suit me.

Edited by IanD
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He has no criteria apart for saying the opposite to what anyone else says.

No, just trying to explain why I chose what I did on my boat. If you want something different then fine, do that on your boat.

 

Comments like this are exactly why I didn't put up a build blog... 😞

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7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't understand -- if you're going down a lock and get hung up on the cill that'll be at the stern, surely? So with bows sinking in a lock, what use is a forward exit, especially side doors?

 

 

Because sometimes life throws us some surprises

 

article-1034353-01EA656700000578-107_468x628.jpg

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12 minutes ago, IanD said:

Comments like this are exactly why I didn't put up a build blog... 😞

 

If you dont like criticism (constructive or otherwise) in a discussion forum then yes probably a good idea. 

 

As we know you definitely dont like criticism, then its definitely a good idea.

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He has no criteria apart for saying the opposite to what anyone else says.

 

It appears to be his default position.......

 

Boats do indeed hang up by either end, one jamming its bow in the gate recess on the Wigan flight did exactly that the other day.

 

But of course he knows better.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Because sometimes life throws us some surprises

 

article-1034353-01EA656700000578-107_468x628.jpg

Yes it does. I've also seen boats sunk in wide locks on their side, but that doesn't persuade me that I need bow side doors on both sides.

 

In reality an emergency exit is something I hope I'll never need, and in the unlikely event I ever do the most likely reasons by far are a stern-up cilling or escape in case of fire, and for both those cases I'm happy with what I've got.

 

Like all other aspects of boat layout and equipment, anyone who feels differently is free to choose something different for themselves -- after a lot of thought and weighing up pros and cons of different layouts I'm doing what I think is right for me, not saying "this is the best and only choice" or telling you what to do with *your* boat 😉

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

Yes it does. I've also seen boats sunk in wide locks on their side, but that doesn't persuade me that I need bow side doors on both sides.

 

In reality an emergency exit is something I hope I'll never need, and in the unlikely event I ever do the most likely reasons by far are a stern-up cilling or escape in case of fire, and for both those cases I'm happy with what I've got.

 

Like all other aspects of boat layout and equipment, anyone who feels differently is free to choose something different for themselves -- after a lot of thought and weighing up pros and cons of different layouts I'm doing what I think is right for me, not saying "this is the best and only choice" or telling you what to do with *your* boat 😉

 

Our boat was a trad stern, and had access at both ends. I am a firm subscriber to Muphy's Law, and would, consequently, have two means of access and egress if I was designing a boat from new. There is also the issue of ventilation, boats can get very hot inside during the summer, and an opening at both ends encourages a through draught.which assists better ventilation.

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3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Our boat was a trad stern, and had access at both ends. I am a firm subscriber to Muphy's Law, and would, consequently, have two means of access and egress if I was designing a boat from new. There is also the issue of ventilation, boats can get very hot inside during the summer, and an opening at both ends encourages a through draught.which assists better ventilation.

Which is why I have access at both ends, and three sets of side doors (plus the stern doors) which can be opened for ventilation -- see picture on previous page... 😉

Edited by IanD
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