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Who are the elite boat builders?


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11 hours ago, Jimbo435 said:

 

And it makes sense.  My biggest concern really is that it might just be "someone else's choices" that put my off the whole idea.

I was assuming that in selecting your second hand boat you would choose one that ticks most of your 'must haves', so that there shouldn't be too much compromise in living with 'someone else's choices'.

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15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I was assuming that in selecting your second hand boat you would choose one that ticks most of your 'must haves', so that there shouldn't be too much compromise in living with 'someone else's choices'.

Plus, someone else's choices, frequently in the case of a good builder, will often turn out to be the right compromise for reasons you'll discover as you live with them. Narrowboats are all about compromise IMHO.

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11 hours ago, Jimbo435 said:

am I going to be cussing at that decision when I need to send the missus to the bow in the pouring rain along the gunwales or having to stop the boat to allow her to do that off the towpath?

 

You could always bring the stern into the side and let her step off easily!

 

Where do you see the need to get on/off the bow?  Very few singlehanded boaters attempt to do this ...

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6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You could always bring the stern into the side and let her step off easily!

 

Where do you see the need to get on/off the bow?  Very few singlehanded boaters attempt to do this ...

Hallelujah! I thought it was just me...! Letting someone 60' away from you, who has no control, jump from a part of the boat you can't see, onto something you can't see, across a gap you can't see doesn't seem an entirely well thought out course of action to me.

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19 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hallelujah! I thought it was just me...! Letting someone 60' away from you, who has no control, jump from a part of the boat you can't see, onto something you can't see, across a gap you can't see doesn't seem an entirely well thought out course of action to me.

 

 

Can't help but agree! 

 

As a single-hander, having a 'crew' on board wanting or expecting to 'help', is a confounded nuisance. They completely muck up one's slick and practiced boat handling technique. :)

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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20 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hallelujah! I thought it was just me...! Letting someone 60' away from you, who has no control, jump from a part of the boat you can't see, onto something you can't see, across a gap you can't see doesn't seem an entirely well thought out course of action to me.

It's alright as they stand precariously on the bows and then turn to face the steerer to shout to them how far away the bank is but then aren't paying attention when the boat hits the bank and catapults them off.

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16 hours ago, nicknorman said:


We opted for a “one stop shop” - hull builder and fitter-outer as one business - because we live in Scotland 450 miles away and we’re therefore unable to “supervise” much. But of course you live a lot further away! That said, lots of people go for separate hull builders and outfitters.

 

What to look for in a boat builder? Well for me it would be proven history of not going broke, and for the hull an ability to do pleasing steelwork (ie curves, not just slabs of steel welded together), welded together neatly. But of course the aesthetics are a personal thing.

For the fit out, again a proven history in the business. Not, for example, history in the business of say fitting out caravans, kitchens or shops!

 

Everyone says buy second hand for your first boat, and this is good advice. It’s not like buying a car (automobile)!
 

If you really want to buy new, builders such as Colecraft who have been doing it for decades and know exactly what works, have got to be your best bet. It won’t be a stand-out boat but it will be a fully functional tried and tested boat.

But you bought a boat from a builder who got in laser cut slabs of metal to weld together. 

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On 30/06/2022 at 17:17, Richard T said:

If you want a good hull go no further than Brinklow Boat Services. They also do excellent fit outs and vintage engine installations. Ivybridge are also good but I don't know if Roger is up to building from scratch again. Ian Kemp is another name that springs to mind.

 

Roger went semi-retired a few years ago, what that means is that he works a shorter day and only does hull repairs and conversions. Recently, a regular long term past customer pleaded with him to build another hire boat,  but he declined.

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There are good reasons for having a reverse layout *if* it suits you. You can have a bedroom at the front that nobody needs to walk through (and can have a big bed if you like that), and it's more sociable for the steerer especially with more than two people on board and a semi-trad stern. For a solo boater it makes less sense.

 

As was said, all narrowboat design is a compromise, every layout has advantages and disadvantages -- some obvious, some not -- and different people prefer different layouts.

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On 01/07/2022 at 01:56, Trawler said:

I will say I am drawn to some of the Norton Canes models I have seen. I reached out to them to learn more; the lines and the quality of a few that they had built really spoke to me (there was a used one I would have just bought now but I was a week late). I also liked a Braidbar I watched on YouTube. I really don’t know much more about these yet, but the Norton Cane felt a bit more classic to me. 
 

I hoped there was a very short list of builders that were recognized as providing a premium build. I think builders get overwhelmed as all are slow to respond, maybe since they can’t filter to recognize serious buyers?  Ideally, I would find a wonderful used one first to hone my preferences and wait until the new build is done. Or find someone who wants a flexible partner. 

CTS Boats are lovely too.

http://ww.canaltransportservices.co.uk/home.html

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51 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But you bought a boat from a builder who got in laser cut slabs of metal to weld together. 

Nothing wrong with a Hudson as long as you are aware of what you are buying.

other builders get runs of plate cut , to avoid weld distortion.

If you wanted. uniformity get a production run Hudson.

The risk with bespoke is you can get something so personal there is a limited secondhand market, and hence massive depreciation.

Remember standing next to shop lock one day. Tim Higton said there’s a quarter of a million in the lock ( early 90s) two very strange boats went through, later on market at under 50000 each, and unsellable.

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5 hours ago, Lady C said:

 

A lot of new boats are semi-trads with the main access at the back of the boat and the front having a cratch cover that often stays closed.  In my view, it makes sense to avoid having the main access into the bedroom.  Hence the reverse layout becoming more popular.  For a trad style boat like Nick's, the easier access route will be through the front of the boat so having the bedroom at the back is better.

This was one of our biggest reasons for not wanting a rear bedroom.  We couldn't see the sense in coming into the bedroom in our mucky boots and wet clothes.  Your's and other's posts about main access is news to us, but makes perfect sense.  We always assumed the stern was the main access.  

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

I was assuming that in selecting your second hand boat you would choose one that ticks most of your 'must haves', so that there shouldn't be too much compromise in living with 'someone else's choices'.

Of course you're correct.  I tend to over worry.

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3 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

This was one of our biggest reasons for not wanting a rear bedroom.  We couldn't see the sense in coming into the bedroom in our mucky boots and wet clothes.  Your's and other's posts about main access is news to us, but makes perfect sense.  We always assumed the stern was the main access.  

Of course you're correct.  I tend to over worry.

It’s a very personal thing: my favourite was a trad stern, then drop down into a big bathroom with a pigeon box,  then a corridor with bedroom off it, then a big kitchen/living room with a side hatch and another pigeon box, and stove at the front feeding the radiators. And most of the front end outside was on top of a huge water tank. All in 55’.

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5 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You could always bring the stern into the side and let her step off easily!

 

Where do you see the need to get on/off the bow?  Very few singlehanded boaters attempt to do this ...

Obviously, boat handling/maneuvers is my largest blind spot.  I only used that example because in watching narrowboat vlogs, I've noticed several couples that tend to cruise with one in front.  Now that I think about it, this might just be to get better sound/video, but suspected it might also have to do with handling the boat.  This was eventually going to be one of my questions: What would be the downside to not having easy access to the well deck (is that the proper term?  or bow?) and why would we need to get easily to the bow through the inside?

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We have a trad stern with rear bedroom and always use the stern to get on/off the boat.  Muddy boots and wet coats are removed whilst stood in the rear hatch.

Edited by Rob-M
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46 minutes ago, IanD said:

There are good reasons for having a reverse layout *if* it suits you. You can have a bedroom at the front that nobody needs to walk through (and can have a big bed if you like that), and it's more sociable for the steerer especially with more than two people on board and a semi-trad stern. For a solo boater it makes less sense.

 

As was said, all narrowboat design is a compromise, every layout has advantages and disadvantages -- some obvious, some not -- and different people prefer different layouts.

This was our second reason for wanting a reverse layout (mucky boots in the bedroom being #1) was sociability.  If the missus is in the galley while underway, communication would seem to be easier than if she was amidships or further along.  I was hoping that tradeoffs could be discussed and justified (or not) with those with more (or even any) experience before committing to any boat, new or used.  

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17 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

Obviously, boat handling/maneuvers is my largest blind spot.  I only used that example because in watching narrowboat vlogs, I've noticed several couples that tend to cruise with one in front.  Now that I think about it, this might just be to get better sound/video, but suspected it might also have to do with handling the boat.  This was eventually going to be one of my questions: What would be the downside to not having easy access to the well deck (is that the proper term?  or bow?) and why would we need to get easily to the bow through the inside?

 

If you do have a well deck at the bows then you do inevitably need access to it. Many boats with reverse layout (bedroom at front, no bow doors) don't have a well deck, they either have a tug deck (flush) or a short half-height cabin for storage (potter's cabin). You need an emergency exit from the bedroom, some have a front window which can be climbed out of in an emergency, others have side doors which can also be used (if really needed) to access the bows from inside without walking the full length of the gunwale, see attached photo.

 

You don't actually need access to the bows very often except to moor up, it's easy (sometimes easier) to drop people off at the stern -- in a reverse layout boat (with no well deck) the stern is the entry/exit and main area for outdoor use.

 

A layout like this does mean you don't have a quiet outside bow area away from the engine noise when travelling, so you need a well-silenced engine -- or an electric/hybrid boat, which this is...

 

Image.jpeg

Edited by IanD
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4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

If you do have a well deck at the bows then you do inevitably need access to it. Many boats with reverse layout (bedroom at front, no bow doors) don't have a well deck, they either have a tug deck (flush) or a short half-height cabin for storage (potter's cabin). You need an emergency exit from the bedroom, some have a front window which can be climbed out of in an emergency, others have side doors which can also be used (if really needed) to access the bows from inside without walking the full length of the gunwale, see attached photo.

 

You don't actually need access to the bows very often except to moor up, it's easy (sometimes easier) to drop people off at the stern -- in a reverse layout boat (with no well deck) the stern is the entry/exit and main area for outdoor use.

Image.jpeg

How do you get to the bow. That only has side doors without a sliding hatch which makes it harder to get out of

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24 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

It’s a very personal thing: my favourite was a trad stern, then drop down into a big bathroom with a pigeon box,  then a corridor with bedroom off it, then a big kitchen/living room with a side hatch and another pigeon box, and stove at the front feeding the radiators. And most of the front end outside was on top of a huge water tank. All in 55’.

This seems perfectly workable, especially for a solo boater.  Don't have to run through any other cabins to get to the bathroom whilst cruising.  Would make the stop much quicker and cleaner.

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7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

How do you get to the bow. That only has side doors without a sliding hatch which makes it harder to get out of

Correct, they're not really intended for this, if you wanted to do this regularly (why?) you'd have a (lifting) hatch. If I want to get to the bows -- which is rare -- I normally just walk along the gunwale from the stern. Mostly I get on and off the boat at the stern, with a centre line if needed -- I don't think I got on or off at the bows once last time out, except to grab the bow rope (from the bank) when mooring up.

 

This layout suits me; a solo boater could well prefer something more traditional not reversed, as posted above.

Edited by IanD
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30 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

.................and why would we need to get easily to the bow through the inside?

 

Just remember that the engine, fuel tank, gas cylinders, kitchen will generally be in the rear half of the boat, if there is a fire it is likely to involve one of those, and could / will block your exit via the stern.

 

It is important to have a method of exit in the front of the boat, and if the fire should happen whiilst you are in a narrow lock there may not be enenough width to be able to get out of a side hatch.

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40 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

This was one of our biggest reasons for not wanting a rear bedroom.  We couldn't see the sense in coming into the bedroom in our mucky boots and wet clothes.  Your's and other's posts about main access is news to us, but makes perfect sense.  We always assumed the stern was the main access.  

Of course you're correct.  I tend to over worry.

You can have a small utility area between the bedroom and the rear doors on a standard layout where coats, boots etc can be removed and stored. It's a handy place to install a washing machine too.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just remember that the engine, fuel tank, gas cylinders, kitchen will generally be in the rear half of the boat, if there is a fire it is likely to involve one of those, and could / will block your exit via the stern.

 

It is important to have a method of exit in the front of the boat, and if the fire should happen whiilst you are in a narrow lock there may not be enenough width to be able to get out of a side hatch.

 

As usual, it's essential to have a sense of proportion here. I don't know if there has *ever* been a single case of a boat catching fire in a lock, this (almost?) always happens when moored. Maybe I should also think about an extra-strong reinforced roof in case of a meteorite strike? 😉

 

In my case there is also no gas on the boat, and the chance of a diesel fire (generator or boiler) is extremely small.

Edited by IanD
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The biggest issue I struggle with  of the traditional stern is when as a couple you want to stand together and have a cup of tea/coffee and talk as one cruises.  This doesn’t apply for a solo cruiser. The sociable bow area is more for when one is moored of course. Also, for longer cruising days the helms person is standing for hours at a time, though one can sit in the hatch opening if limber enough, though this isn’t unique to the traditional stern.  

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