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Who are the elite boat builders?


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Who are considered the top boat builders?  I imagine there are three components: the one who builds the hull or shell, the cabinet maker (or is that all in house?) and the overall boat builder?  
 

I understand there are long back logs for construction, which while not preferable is acceptable. I also understand I’ll pay a premium but the ease of process and end product are worth it to me. 
 

I really can’t determine who creates the highest quality boats, and by that I mean overall engineering, fit and finish, especially cabinetry, etc. is there a short list of 2, 3 or 5?  I understand domes,Amy have specific thoughts of an individual builder but is there a consensus?   I’ve watched many videos and seen some I really like but I’m not that clued into the market hence my ask. 
 

thank you. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Trawler said:

I really can’t determine who creates the highest quality boats, and by that I mean overall engineering, fit and finish, especially cabinetry, etc.

 

The best boat builders are those who build boats that handle well, go in a straight line, are not banana shaped, do not have leaking welds etc etc. (ie the Hull is the boat.

The fit out of a boat is totally separate and you could have gold plated taps, and in the bathroom a warm air blower and a powder puff for your bum but the worst built and worst handling boat in the world.

 

The best boat builder can be comissioned, and then you can commision the best fitting out company.

 

But - remember that we are getting very close to the cut off dates when diesel boats will not be allowed to be built and your depreciation will be huge if you have a diesel boat built now.

Pay the extra £30000 (?) and go for an electric boat.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The best boat builders are those who build boats that handle well, go in a straight line, are not banana shaped, do not have leaking welds etc etc. (ie the Hull is the boat.

The fit out of a boat is totally separate and you could have gold plated taps, and in the bathroom a warm air blower and a powder puff for your bum but the worst built and worst handling boat in the world.

 

The best boat builder can be comissioned, and then you can commision the best fitting out company.

 

But - remember that we are getting very close to the cut off dates when diesel boats will not be allowed to be built and your depreciation will be huge if you have a diesel boat built now.

Pay the extra £30000 (?) and go for an electric boat.

When is the cut off date for diesel boats then

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10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

When is the cut off date for diesel boats then

 

Here we go again - its been posted and discussed 'millions' of times over the last few years.

 

2025 - any boat built must be capable of being converted to zero-emission propulsion

2035 - no boat may be built that is not zero-emission propulsion.

 

 

At the present time it seems the only propulsion method that meets the criteria is 'electric', and because the charging infrastructure is not yet in place (or ever likely to be ) you need to carry a 'huge' generator (diesel powered of course) with you to recharge your batteries.

 

Any boat built now, and remember the decent builders have a 2 or 3 year waiting list, will have a very high depreciation rate unless it is 'electric'.

 

The plan is that by 2050 No 'non-zero emission propulsion' boats will be allowed in UK waters (inland and coastal)

Any Internal combustion engined boat will be worthless. 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Aqua Narrowboats, they buy in the shell, will use whoever you want otherwise Colecraft, a good solid shell builder, and then Aqua fit out all the internals, engine, electrics, carpentry, fittings etc. The quality of their joinery is very high, all nicely rounded off corners etc.

Edited by PeterF
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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Here we go again - its been posted and discussed 'millions' of times over the last few years.

 

2025 - any boat built must be capable of being converted to zero-emission propulsion

2035 - no boat may be built that is not zero-emission propulsion.

 

 

At the present time it seems the only propulsion method that meets the criteria is 'electric', and because the charging infrastructure is not yet in place (or ever likely to be ) you need to carry a 'huge' generator (diesel powered of course) with you to recharge your batteries.

 

Any boat built now, and remember the decent builders have a 2 or 3 year waiting list, will have a very high depreciation rate unless it is 'electric'.

 

The plan is that by 2050 No 'non-zero emission propulsion' boats will be allowed in UK waters (inland and coastal)

Any Internal combustion engined boat will be worthless. 

So you can have a diesel generator which charges the batteries to give you zero emissions propulsion

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Just now, nicknorman said:

I'm not entirely sure why this means depreciation will be huge? If new combustion engine boats can no longer be built, whilst the ability to operate a pure electric boat is limited (due to no charging points, insufficient grid capacity etc) then surely the value of second hand combustion engined boats will increase? Yes maybe there is some intention to ban combustion engines altogether after 2050 but there is absolutely no certainty that this will happen and personally I doubt that thousands of combusstion engined boats will suddenly be declared unusable. It's a standard scare tactic to get people to go electric.

It doesn't make sense to have an electric boat and a generator to charge the batteries.

Yes, a generator running at optimum economic speed will probably have a lower hourly fuel burn than the boat's engine,but you don't get back from a battery everything you put into it.A good amount of solar will of course be most helpful, but the fact remains, that you are still burning fossil,although probably a bit less than the boat's engine.

If the proposed legislation comes to pass, a boat will cost a fortune but for very little reduction in emissions.

A dozen charging points at each service point, would largely solve the emission problem, but will that happen?

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I’m not new to boating, and will be transitioning over the next 10 years from a trawler used in BC and Alaska.  English canals seem a logical next step for me, for several reasons. 
 

I’m intrigued by going electric, either parallel or serial. 
 

it’s not just the steps outlined above about a great shell, but I want single point accountability and integration. 

 

Aqua was mentioned above. I’ve also heard Braidbar, Norton Cane and ortomarine, etc 

Edited by Trawler
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5 minutes ago, Trawler said:

Aqua was mentioned above. I’ve also heard Braidbar, Norton Cane and ortomarine, etc 

Braidbar turn out some nice boats (in my opinion) -I followed a Hybrid of theirs up the Watford flight not long ago. The boat also had a full remote system and the owner was up top controlling the boat using a small handset.

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3 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Braidbar turn out some nice boats (in my opinion) -I followed a Hybrid of theirs up the Watford flight not long ago. The boat also had a full remote system and the owner was up top controlling the boat using a small handset.

Was that the one from the Crick 2022 show?  Women owner?  If so, it  did look quite nice.  She had a Beta Diesel engine in parallel with the electric motor. 

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4 minutes ago, Trawler said:

Was that the one from the Crick 2022 show?  Women owner?  If so, it  did look quite nice.  She had a Beta Diesel engine in parallel with the electric motor. 

Thats the one. Think it was the third Braidbar she'd owned so that says plenty for them.

Norton Canes as @magnetman says are rather nice too..

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33 minutes ago, Trawler said:

I’m not new to boating, and will be transcitioning over the next 10 years from a trawler used in BC and Alaska.  English canals seem a logical next step for me, for several reasonys. 
 

I’m intrigued by going electric, either parallel or serial. 
 

it’s not just the steps outlined above about a great shell, but I want single point accountability and integration. 

 

Aqua was mentioned above. I’ve also heard Braidbar, Norton Cane and ortomarine, etc 

It might be worth contacting Thorne boatyard, they have Jonathan Wilson building and Steve Ellis fitting out. Not sure about hybrid engines, they will build you a good hull and excellent internal  finish if you like the traditional cabinet making style. They are not the same business but I think they will co ordinate. I would say that the paint job and the signwriter will make your boat stand out.

I think you will end up as project manager, how difficult can it be?

Just find a good surveyor to oversee the job.

I would be concerned you will find the inland waterways of the UK rather boring.

What about a nice peniche on the European waterways?

Edited by LadyG
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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It might be worth contacting Thorne boatyard, they have Jonathan Wilson building and Steve Ellis fitting out. Not sure about hybrid engines, they will build you a good hull and excellent internal  finish if you like the traditional cabinet making style. They are not the same business but I think they will co ordinate. I would say that the paint job and the signwriter will make your boat stand out.

I think you will end up as project manager, how difficult can it be?

Just find a good surveyor to oversee the job.

Stand out in a good way or not ?

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If you want a good hull go no further than Brinklow Boat Services. They also do excellent fit outs and vintage engine installations. Ivybridge are also good but I don't know if Roger is up to building from scratch again. Ian Kemp is another name that springs to mind.

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5 minutes ago, Richard T said:

If you want a good hull go no further than Brinklow Boat Services. They also do excellent fit outs and vintage engine installations. Ivybridge are also good but I don't know if Roger is up to building from scratch again. Ian Kemp is another name that springs to mind.

Ian Kemp has been superseded by his son David Kemp. 

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I will say I am drawn to some of the Norton Canes models I have seen. I reached out to them to learn more; the lines and the quality of a few that they had built really spoke to me (there was a used one I would have just bought now but I was a week late). I also liked a Braidbar I watched on YouTube. I really don’t know much more about these yet, but the Norton Cane felt a bit more classic to me. 
 

I hoped there was a very short list of builders that were recognized as providing a premium build. I think builders get overwhelmed as all are slow to respond, maybe since they can’t filter to recognize serious buyers?  Ideally, I would find a wonderful used one first to hone my preferences and wait until the new build is done. Or find someone who wants a flexible partner. 

Edited by Trawler
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11 minutes ago, Trawler said:

I think builders get overwhelmed as all are slow to respond and probs ly don’t recognize serious buyers.

The elite builders have more work than they can handle, and don't need to spend time responding to casual enquiries, most of which will not come to anything. You have to visit them to talk through what you want and show them you are serious.

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19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The elite builders have more work than they can handle, and don't need to spend time responding to casual enquiries, most of which will not come to anything. You have to visit them to talk through what you want and show them you are serious.


That’s great advice and I believe it to be true. First I need to find out who to visit!, hence this post.  after my first two emails failed, I started dropping more hints to convince them I was worth responding to. I don’t find that very tasteful though.
 

At the moment I can’t travel due to family health issues now and upcoming travels. Once we are in a dialog, I believe they will learn enough about me to take my interest and means seriously.  I am a great client though as I admire and appreciate quality craftsmanship, and will pay for that. 

Edited by Trawler
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14 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

It doesn't make sense to have an electric boat and a generator to charge the batteries.

Yes, a generator running at optimum economic speed will probably have a lower hourly fuel burn than the boat's engine,but you don't get back from a battery everything you put into it.A good amount of solar will of course be most helpful, but the fact remains, that you are still burning fossil,although probably a bit less than the boat's engine.

A few weeks ago I came across a blogging boat that makes a big thing about being all electric, domestic as well as propulsion.

 

They were running their engine to charge their batteries.

 

(Well, it made me laugh anyway)

Edited by Victor Vectis
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I find it heartening that Norton Canes have been given a mention or two. I’ve been associated with them for the last 25 years or so and can attest to the quality and pleasing lines of the shells. Graham Edgson, the founder, is now retired but daughter Sarah is maintaining the reputation at Glascote, aided by a couple of Graham’s fellow workers. A new shell is nearly complete, RN DM2 installed ( well, in place) and I don’t doubt that the fit out will be immaculate.

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