Jump to content

Generator usage


jddevel

Featured Posts

It's a Honda 20Eui It was 9.30am and had been on for around 10mins. I normally have to run it for about 20mins to get to 100% even after say 4 hrs. Cruising. The boat is 12 and 240volt. The frig biggest culprit 240 volt. I'm not an electrician and have to rely on "experts" to sort out my problems. I'm not a live aboard so have to arrange things via a marina. So far the original "installer" of the cable system, the solar installer and another engineer at a canal side marina have failed to find a solution. But I'll keep trying as the noise irritates me as well. I boat for peace and quiet. It's the way my wife was spoken to. I rested awhile before "talking" to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, jddevel said:

It's a Honda 20Eui It was 9.30am and had been on for around 10mins. I normally have to run it for about 20mins to get to 100% even after say 4 hrs. Cruising. The boat is 12 and 240volt. The frig biggest culprit 240 volt. I'm not an electrician and have to rely on "experts" to sort out my problems. I'm not a live aboard so have to arrange things via a marina. So far the original "installer" of the cable system, the solar installer and another engineer at a canal side marina have failed to find a solution. But I'll keep trying as the noise irritates me as well. I boat for peace and quiet. It's the way my wife was spoken to. I rested awhile before "talking" to them.

Something to consider is that, for me at least, one of the main contributing factors is the uncertainty about how long the running is going to go on for. If I was moored next to you and you had said to me “I’m need to run the genny for 30 mins (etc)” then it would be fine by me (assuming it wasn’t unreasonably noisy) because there was a definite end point. Whereas if you just started it, I would sit there gradually getting more irate because I had no idea whether it would be 30 mins or 8 hours, and fearing the worst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jddevel said:

I normally have to run it for about 20mins to get to 100% even after say 4 hrs cruising.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Assuming you have FLA batteries. By the time your batteries are 95%+ charged the current that the batteries will accept is going to be very low, running your generator (and battery charger) will possibly only be achieving  5 or 6 amps charge (depending on battery bank size), so for 20 minutes generator running you will be putting in about 2Ah.

 

It could take 4, 5 or 6 hours of running the generator to get from (say) 95% to 100%

 

How do you determine that your batteries are at 100% ?

 

Do you have a voltmeter and ammeter ?

 

Your battery is fully charged when the voltage is around 14.4-14.6 volts and the charging current is under 2% of battery bank size ** (1% is better) and has not changed for the last hour.

 

**

If you battery bank is 100Ah then you should be looking for a 14.4 volt, & under 2 amp, charge rate (1 amp is better).

If you have 300Ah battery bank the charge rate should be under 6 amps (3 amps is better)

 

 

If you have been undercharging the batteries than their capacity could be reduced due to sulphation, they will discharge very quickly and will charge up quickly, as they only effectively be much smaller batteries (could only be 50Ah instead of 100Ah).

 

Undercharging can 'kill' FLA in a matter of a few weeks.

 

Have you done an 'actual' capacity check on the batteries ?

 

Again - how are you determining 'fully charged' ? It is an important question !

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would think if someone moored up next to me an immediately got the generator out, I'd be groaning. 

Though I'd do my housekeeping and get ready to cruise, then move, even if it's only a mile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would think if someone moored up next to me an immediately got the generator out, I'd be groaning. 

Though I'd do my housekeeping and get ready to cruise, then move, even if it's only a mile.

 

 

Same when a boat arrives and moors up close but then keeps the engine running. Bloody annoying! 

 

I asked a boater a few summers back who did this to me why they needed still the engine running after a day of cruising. They said "four of us on board and we all have a shower after mooring up". 

 

Other boats I think do it because they have knackered domestic batts and need the engine running to watch the telly. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had to remind someone of the 8 to 8 rule a few weeks back where they appeared back at their boat at 8:15pm and started the engine because they wanted to use the microwave to cook their tea 😠

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Same when a boat arrives and moors up close but then keeps the engine running. Bloody annoying! 

 

I asked a boater a few summers back who did this to me why they needed still the engine running after a day of cruising. They said "four of us on board and we all have a shower after mooring up". 

 

Other boats I think do it because they have knackered domestic batts and need the engine running to watch the telly. 

 


Crazy to burn diesel to have a shower when free hot water was available whilst they were cruising. Well unless they’d just come up a big flight of locks I suppose. Anyway, you should have said “you don’t “moor up”, you either “moor”, or you “tie up”.”

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:


Crazy to burn diesel to have a shower when free hot water was available whilst they were cruising. Well unless they’d just come up a big flight of locks I suppose. Anyway, you should have said “you don’t “moor up”, you either “moor”, or you “tie up”.”

 

 

True. Also, why do boats/ships 'cast off', but never 'cast on'?

 

"Cast on" being a knitting term so it amuses me, my own use of 'cast on' when mooring. 

 

Up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Same when a boat arrives and moors up close but then keeps the engine running. Bloody annoying! 

 

I asked a boater a few summers back who did this to me why they needed still the engine running after a day of cruising. They said "four of us on board and we all have a shower after mooring up". 

 

Other boats I think do it because they have knackered domestic batts and need the engine running to watch the telly. 

 

 

 

 

When on board, there are 3 of us. One showers in the morning after we’ve been running for an hour, the second one has a shower after lunch, and the third when we’ve moored up.  No need to run the engine alongside, and this method allows the hot water to “recover” after the first two showers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jddevel said:

 I normally have to run it for about 20mins to get to 100% even after say 4 hrs. Cruising.

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

How do you determine that your batteries are at 100% ?

 

Do you have a voltmeter and ammeter ?

 

Your battery is fully charged when the voltage is around 14.4-14.6 volts and the charging current is under 2% of battery bank size ** (1% is better) and has not changed for the last hour.

 

**

If you battery bank is 100Ah then you should be looking for a 14.4 volt, & under 2 amp, charge rate (1 amp is better).

If you have 300Ah battery bank the charge rate should be under 6 amps (3 amps is better)

 

Again - how are you determining 'fully charged' ? It is an important question !

 

I second Alan's question and add some supposition.I

 

Assuming lead acid batteries.

 

Do you have something like a Victron BMV702 or Smartshunt battery monitor or another manufacturer's. Have the battery full settings of voltage and tail current (SOC synchronises to 100%) been set to match your alternator. The voltage should be 0.1 to 0.2V lower than the alternator voltage. I ask because if set incorrectly, the battery monitor may well not reset to 100% full even if the batteries have been revharged enough. If your generator and 230V battery charger ( or inverter charger) charges at a slightly higher voltage then this could quickly meet the battery monitor reset to 100% even though it did not in effect do much. Your example sounds very much like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so a lot of technicals that I've to get my head around. I've 5 x 110 amp service batteries plus starter battery plus  (sorry) thruster battery ( try not to use it to much but windage sometimes defeats me). I've a Victron centaur  12v 60 amp charger, Victron phoenix 12v 3000va inverter and a victron battery monitor. Obviously 2 alternators. Have always tried to keep batteries as near to 100% as possible being aware or sulphation and the cost of batteries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, nicknorman said:


Perhaps bear in mind that low frequency sound travels better through water. So whilst you may barely hear your genset from the towpath, it will be much more audible as a low rumble from inside a nearby boat.

No, it can’t be heard. However, I’m drawing 5’ of depth so it’s close to below waterline, the engine room and lazerette are sound insulated, it’s on isolation mounts, wet exhaust and in a sound box. Narrowboats probably can’t go to that extreme.  We are seeing, and I’m contemplating, lithium iron house banks as they can charge much faster and hence require fewer engine hours to charge plus larger solar installations though our solar mounting space is relatively small, basically a hardtop on a fly bridge. 

Edited by Trawler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

People take to the canals due to the peace and quiet and wildlife, so generators seem to go against that?  if you have a genny then just moor away from others seems the simple solution - or those who don't like the genny sound can also move.... whichever!  :)

People take to the canals due to the peace and quiet and wildlife, so generators seem to go against that?  if you have a genny then just moor away from others seems the simple solution - or those who don't like the genny sound can also move.... whichever!  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Ok so a lot of technicals that I've to get my head around. I've 5 x 110 amp service batteries plus starter battery plus  (sorry) thruster battery ( try not to use it to much but windage sometimes defeats me). I've a Victron centaur  12v 60 amp charger, Victron phoenix 12v 3000va inverter and a victron battery monitor. Obviously 2 alternators. Have always tried to keep batteries as near to 100% as possible being aware or sulphation and the cost of batteries.

OK, happy to provide some advice if you want it.

 

On your Victron battery monitor can you get to a settings screen like the one below. What values do you have for "charged voltage", "tail current" and "charged detection time" and after you have been boating for 3 to 4 hours what voltage are your batteries at from the alter and what current is flowing into the batteries.

 

Screenshot_20220701-154642.jpg.3667113a0e66bc412a09205d4ea032d0.jpg

Edited by PeterF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Ok so a lot of technicals that I've to get my head around. I've 5 x 110 amp service batteries plus starter battery plus  (sorry) thruster battery ( try not to use it to much but windage sometimes defeats me). I've a Victron centaur  12v 60 amp charger, Victron phoenix 12v 3000va inverter and a victron battery monitor. Obviously 2 alternators. Have always tried to keep batteries as near to 100% as possible being aware or sulphation and the cost of batteries.

Given that you have already told us all that it's a Honda, and you only run it for 20 mins, or so, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, in terms of noise. Anybody nearby who is stressing when you start it up will know within 20 minutes that it isn't going to go on for long.

 

Having said that, I am also wondering how many Ahs you think are being put into the batteries in those 20 minutes. If they were so full that 20 minutes would take them to 100% then, in reality, they were already at 100%.

 

My simple calculation suggests that if they are full after your 20 minutes of charging, you have put between 2 and 4 Amp Hours into the batteries in that time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

People take to the canals due to the peace and quiet and wildlife, so generators seem to go against that?  if you have a genny then just moor away from others seems the simple solution - or those who don't like the genny sound can also move.... whichever!  :)

I've been doing that quite a lot the last couple of years. Amazing how many people moor up unnecessarily close and pump you full of fumes or just annoy with the noise. Probably the reason anyone sensible leaves git-gaps - but the first part refers to those we're trying to avoid, not the leaver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jddevel said:

Ok so a lot of technicals that I've to get my head around. I've 5 x 110 amp service batteries plus starter battery plus  (sorry) thruster battery ( try not to use it to much but windage sometimes defeats me). I've a Victron centaur  12v 60 amp charger, Victron phoenix 12v 3000va inverter and a victron battery monitor. Obviously 2 alternators. Have always tried to keep batteries as near to 100% as possible being aware or sulphation and the cost of batteries.

Eh. 

Do you run a fridge, a freezer, microwave,, washing machine, tumbler dryer, hairdryers,  and hot tub?

No solar?

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have left the boat now so will check what the monitor displays. Remember you are dealing with a tech idiot!! Became obsessed with battery discharge when the boat was fitted out as a result of reading topics on the subject on the forum.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/07/2022 at 12:12, davem399 said:

When on board, there are 3 of us. One showers in the morning after we’ve been running for an hour, the second one has a shower after lunch, and the third when we’ve moored up.  No need to run the engine alongside, and this method allows the hot water to “recover” after the first two showers.

Me and the missus both shower when we get up in the morning, before dressing, breakfast or running the engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/07/2022 at 12:11, jddevel said:

Have left the boat now so will check what the monitor displays. Remember you are dealing with a tech idiot!! Became obsessed with battery discharge when the boat was fitted out as a result of reading topics on the subject on the forum.

So you run your generator after a day's boating, and you don't know why? If 4 hours boating isn't enough to charge your batteries, why do you think another 20 minutes on the generator will make a significant difference? If it does, why not just carry on boating for another 20 minutes?

Doesn't it occur to you that the vast majority of boaters just tie up and turn off the engine, without the need to disturb the peace and waste fuel in the process?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a generator, but a few weeks ago someone moored about 50 yards away fired up a generator in the middle of the day. It was reasonably quiet....I thought it was one of the Honda EU clones....but still surprisingly annoying, as it was a nice day and the doors and windows needed to be open. After a while I moved and on my way past I realised it was a Honda EU20i, so in certain circumstances any generator is annoying. 

 

I concur with other posters.....If you'd spent half what the EU20i cost on solar, you would have no power problems at all at this time of year.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, booke23 said:

I concur with other posters.....If you'd spent half what the EU20i cost on solar, you would have no power problems at all at this time of year.  

 

 

What I fin d disappointing is how many liveaboards around here have no solar at all and are happy to run their genny for hours on a warm sunny Sunday afternoon, opposite me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.