New to Boat life - already unhappy with the CRT

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, DShK said:

Yep all true. Interesting that there sort of are competitors, I wasn't aware of that. Boat licenses are like 10% of CRT funding right? So really we're not all that important to them, if looking purely surface level.

 

I'm going to abandon this thread now as to be honest I wanted a little moan because part of the reason I wanted to join the canals was to feel part of a community. I see a lot of in-groups in here who just seem to post what comes to mind and I thought that it'd be fine to have a little rant.  But this has descended into ITS YOUR OWN FAULT, which is like, sure. I'll rant to people in my marina instead going forward.

 

Thanks to the people who have given genuine advice and discussion though. I do appreciate that.

I don't think that's very fair. As far as i know there are no "in-groups" on here, we're a bit too individualistic for that. There are people who agree about some things, but I doubt anyone agrees with anyone else about everything.

And we all rant sometimes, and some folk sympathise, some criticise and some quote stuff at us. It's a discussion forum, after all,  not a support group, though it functions quite well as the latter when required.

[john6767]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

It is in the General canal byelaws

---

 

Display of Licences
Display of
licences
3. (1) The owner of a pleasure boat or commercial vessel shall not
knowingly cause or permit to be used on a canal any pleasure boat or commercial vessel in respect of which a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence has been issued unless the licence for the time being in force is displayed on the pleasure boat or commercial vessel in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the pleasure boat or commercialvessel at all times.
(2) No person shall knowingly cause or permit to be concealed a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence required to be displayed on a pleasure boat or commercial vessel in accordance with this Bye-law.

 

 

---

 

We all know CRT do not pursue byelaw offences but it is technically a legal requirement to display license in a prominent position and they even reinforce it by pointing out that anyone deliberately obscuring it is contravening byelaws. 

 

Fine a pound and sixpence. 

Interestingly the other day CRT stated that they were going to start active enforcement against boats that do not display index number, name and licence.  Time will tell I guess but presumably in response to the disappointing levels of licence compliance, circa 94% I think.  Everyone knows the requirements but people think they are being cleaver by not complying.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Chris John said:

You can get insurance without demonstrating you have a license at purchase, however for the insurance to be valid you have to have a license. 

 

So, you get a licence granted with invalid insurance ?

[Steve Buxton]

In my humble opinion, those who choose to rant on a "public" site are usually looking for sympathy. It sometimes comes as a shock when they find that actually not everyone does have sympathy with them.

Another example is those people who post on Facebook about the nasty speed camera vans persecuting motorists and then are surprised when many of the respondents come back with replies they don't expect like "don't speed and you won't get caught".

 

Now I have to admit I am very much a stick to the rules guy and always have been. That doesn't mean I haven't got it wrong at times and paid the consequences. But I once rode on the Athens Metro and didn't pay the fare because my Greek friend said don't worry nobody does. I didn't get caught but I felt so guilty I would have paid the fare twice.

 

I do get annoyed by people parking on double yellow lines whilst they get their chips, and going through red traffic lights, and not paying their vehicle tax etc etc because I think it is anti-social. Likewise I have paid all my due fees, licences, BSS etc etc etc and don't see why everyone else shouldn't do the same - those are the rules.

 

I am sure that if I wasn't a stick to the rules guy I would probably be happier and might not have grey hair but I don't think anything is going to change at my age 🙂

 

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, DShK said:

Just a bit of a rant mate, to me it's a bit of a ripoff allowing someone to pay for a full month of license for 2 days of use. Does it seem fair?

So if 2 days is not fair, is 3 days, or 30 days (in a 31 day month)? The line has to be drawn somewhere.

What you and the vendor should have done is agree that the transfer of ownership takes place at midnight on the last day of the month. Both of you notify CRT in advance that this is the case (and you pay). That way the vendor does not pay a licence fee for the following month, yours starts on the 1st of the month, and you get the advance payment discount.

Edited June 30, 2022 by David Mack

[agg221]

On a related point, has anyone got any good solutions for where to display a licence other than on the inside of a window? Having only 7 7" portholes to admit light I would rather not then cover two of them up.

 

Alec

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, agg221 said:

On a related point, has anyone got any good solutions for where to display a licence other than on the inside of a window? Having only 7 7" portholes to admit light I would rather not then cover two of them up.

 

Alec

[Momac]

 I go through a lot of locks that are manned and no one asks to see license details. But they do ask for the boat name and index if it cant be seen easily on the deep locks on the Trent.

But really if C&RT cant be arsed to issue a paper licence they cant really complain if no license is displayed. Not everyone has access to print from a computer file.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by MartynG

[Puffling]

16 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 I go through a lot of locks that are manned and no one asks to see license details. But they do log the boat name and index if it cant be seen easily on the deep locks on the Trent.

But really if C&RT cant be arsed to issue a paper licence they cant really complain if no license is displayed. Not everyone has access to print from a computer file.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said on another thread, branches of Ryman and many local libraries will print out a PDF you take in on a thumb drive. It's really one of the least demanding hurdles of liveaboard life.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Puffling

[agg221]

53 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Thanks David, a neat solution. Who sells them and what are they described as please?

 

Alec

[Arthur Marshall]

31 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 I go through a lot of locks that are manned and no one asks to see license details. But they do ask for the boat name and index if it cant be seen easily on the deep locks on the Trent.

But really if C&RT cant be arsed to issue a paper licence they cant really complain if no license is displayed. Not everyone has access to print from a computer file.

I always found it odd that both the Anderton Lift blokes and the Harecastle tunnel keepers make a note of your name and number but this isn't linked to CRTs tracking sytstem. Would be interesting to know if online bookings are.

[agg221]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I always found it odd that both the Anderton Lift blokes and the Harecastle tunnel keepers make a note of your name and number but this isn't linked to CRTs tracking sytstem. Would be interesting to know if online bookings are.

I know the Harecastle online booking system is linked to the CRT database in some way as it auto-completes the boat dimensions from the licence number. This uncovered some interesting errors when we took a couple of boats through last summer - the Norbury hire boat Phoenix allegedly had a 2.3m draft!

 

Alec

[Guest]

Cromwell lock River Trent in 2016.

 

I presume its still there but now blue.

 

 

[Chris John]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

So, you get a licence granted with invalid insurance ?

What are you on about. It’s simple. If you do not have a license with CraftInsure under their T&C’s your insurance if invalid. I don’t get what you can’t understand about that 

[Momac]

7 hours ago, Loddon said:

Untrue, unless in your policy it specifically says that which I doubt.

I agree

There is no mention of licenses on ,my insurance and why would there be.

eg I only have a license 6 months this year and off water the rest . But insurance the whole time.

 

 

[Chris John]

6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Cromwell lock River Trent in 2016.

 

I presume its still there but now blue.

 

 

Yes they are still there and they are blue. When you go into the locks on the River Trent the lock keepers take your registration number. Some also ask when your license runs out. 

[Momac]

7 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Cromwell lock River Trent in 2016.

 

I presume its still there but now blue.

 

 

 

There is a difference  between having a license and displaying it .

I haven't been asked when my license  expires for some considerable time. If you go through unlicensed you can expect to be contacted by C&RT.

 

 

[Slim]

6 hours ago, DShK said:

Thanks for the actually useful input. I've paid for my next lot now, so I could ring up and state my case. I'll give this a go.

 

Right, thanks mate, useful, glad to have you in the discussion. So you're for me being punished by working by the rules?

 

Odd, there was never any agreement on this beyond signing of the contract. I just claimed the boat as mine when I applied for my license. No idea what the previous owners did. I couldn't be upset at them either way, they did leave me with 400 litres of fuel!

 

I like how you're insinuating that I'm being childish by having a greviance with a company policy. Yet you're the one going on the internet and being a troll. I grew out of this when I was 13.

 

There really are some people on this forum that are terminally online.

Do you know that's the first time I've ever been called a troll. Can you please explain the sentence 'There really are.................' It makes no sense to me.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

 

But really if C&RT cant be arsed to issue a paper licence they cant really complain if no license is displayed. Not everyone has access to print from a computer file.

 

Which is exactly what CRT have already told boaters. They don't need boaters to display licenses, just the reg number and they won't be enforcing the redundant regulation.

 

Can you cite an example of CRT ever complaining that no license is being displayed? 

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, agg221 said:

Thanks David, a neat solution. Who sells them and what are they described as please?

 

Alec

That was from Black Country Metalworks, but I see they only sell it in trade quantities. Other boat brassware companies may have something similar.

 

https://www.blackcountrymetalworks.co.uk/boat-licence-holder-frame.htm

 

[Momac]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Can you cite an example of CRT ever complaining that no license is being displayed? 

Not  . But when my license has not been displayed  I have been asked,( in the past but not for some time) , for the expiry date.

 

To be clear I am on the side of 'not' needing to display.

But I have the license  printed and on the boat in case of 'Josworths' as the last  thing I want when boating is conflict. There is one Jobsworh locally.

 

Any signs asking for licenses to be displayed  should be changed to say boat name and index to be displayed.

 

 

 

 

[Paul C]

DShK - if you're new to boating, and this is your tolerance level - best of luck dealing with boatyards etc doing work on your boat and other aspects of waterways life.

[Idle Days]

18 hours ago, robtheplod said:

I've often wondered what the chances are of being caught without a licence. I've seen several inspectors on the Stratford and around Braunston but don't recall seeing any others... with so many miles of canals, mostly rural, do inspectors walk for miles or focus on hotspots?  for disclosure i have a licence by the way...

We are out cruising and I have noticed an iPad equipped checker checking a couple of times, a different checker each time, so I know there is more than one.

[Jess--]

About the needing to display a license...

 

A few years ago CRT said that boaters didn't need to display the license as long as name / index No were visible since that is what they now use (rather than having to get close enough to read the license).

then a couple of months later that statement was corrected to say that CRT didn't need the license on display but it was still written into law that it had to be displayed, very much like the last few years of tax discs on cars the police etc were checking based on registration plate and didn't need to see the paper in the windscreen but the law said it had to be present.

I wonder if they removed the offence of displaying an out of date tax disc when they removed the requirement to display one.

[Midnight]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

To be clear I am on the side of 'not' needing to display.

 

Why? Genuine question as it doesn't seem too difficult to display a license. It is after all part of C&RT's T&Cs even though I accept the checkers don't seem to bother.