Solar install. Advice please

[David J Smith]

Good morning all. We have recently purchased a 58 ft narrowboat. And have decided to go with two 160 watt flexi panels. Identical to the ones used by the two guys on silver fox. Colin made a great vlog, saying how good they are. I'm installing them myself. And it all looks 'Tickedy Boo'. That just happens to be the name of our boat. But i'm no electrician ! Now. I have a 3KW inverter/Charger/Solar controller. All in one as you might say.  Coming out of the bottom of the Inverter, are two Massive thick wires. One negative, and one positive. All covererd in insulating tape. And going nowhere. Is is as simple as fittin the water tight gland on the roof. ans connecting the solar panel leads to these two big wires??? Or do i have to firstly connect the wires from the panels to a controler the likes of the blue Victron ones. Then connect my two big wires that are coming out of my inverter to the connection on the victron controller. Surely. it can't be that simple.... I've tried to attach a picture of my inverter. But apparently its too big. DOH!! Its only off my phone. Any ideas how I get over that??

Thanks in advance, Dave, 69 yesterday. and losing it fast. 

[Tony Brooks]

Normally the really thick wires on an inverter are the battery cables, so it seems your inverter is, for some reason, inoperative. These cables supply 12V to the inverter and if it is am inverter cum battery charger  also supply any charge to the batteries. There should be two or four much smaller connections. Solar pos. in, solar neg. in, and possibly a solar dump lead pair.

 

I do not recognize that as a quality charger and you do not identify it so this is generic, not for your specific inverter. It would not surprise me if it is broken.

[Murflynn]

I once worked with an instrument engineer who couldn't get any of the automated valves to work on a new refinery installation.  After a frustrating day trying to operate the valves remotely from the control building he decided to refer to the manual for the actuators fitted to the valves.  He had wired all the actuators up according to his vast experience.  It then occurred to him that maybe the manufacturers had revised the wiring diagram ..........................

 

..............................  if in doubt Read the Manual.

[Chris John]

The clues in the “I’m no electrician”. Maybe employ one before you do irreversible damage 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Chris John said:

The clues in the “I’m no electrician”. Maybe employ one before you do irreversible damage 

 

or at least RTFM for the inverter.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

or at least RTFM for the inverter.

 

From what can be seen in the picture it looks as if it may be a 'no brand ebay special' which is unlikely to have a detailed technical manual.

 

Maybe the OP can give more details on the make / model of the :

 

 

1 hour ago, David john Smith said:

3KW inverter/Charger/Solar controller. All in one as you might say.

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

From what can be seen in the picture it looks as if it may be a 'no brand ebay special' which is unlikely to have a detailed technical manual.

 

Maybe the OP can give more details on the make / model of the :

 

 

Totally agree, in my view if you buy from such sources you deserve all that ensues.

[Higgs]

But this person in new to boats - possibly. What is shown in the picture looks like it is an inverter only, broken or not. I'd like to know where this (3KW inverter/Charger/Solar controller) description came from, that the OP provided.  

 

I'm not much into Feng Shui, but I'd definitely avoid fitting something that looked upside down when finished.

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Higgs

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Totally agree, in my view if you buy from such sources you deserve all that ensues.

 

To be fair to the guy - he bought the boat and the (alleged) 3 way charger / inverter / controller came with it.

[David J Smith]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Totally agree, in my view if you buy from such sources you deserve all that ensues.

Hi Tony. It has a huge user manual. And unfortunatly its on the boat,and I am home.And it was fitted when the boat was new. So definitly not an "ebay" special. Picture attached of a small label on the casing

Thanks Dave.

[blackrose]

I don't think anyone with limited electrical knowledge should be messing about trying to install an inverter that produces potentially lethal 230V alternating current. 

 

If indeed that's what the OP is doing... 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

To be fair to the guy - he bought the boat and the (alleged) 3 way charger / inverter / controller came with it.

I agree, but I don't see how that inverter would have ever provided any 230V AC to the boat systems. There seems to be a massive lack of basic boat knowledge. That inverter could even have been taken from a skip, cleaned up, and fitted so the boat  sale could claim "fitted with an inverter". Like  Higgs, I have doubts that it is anything more than an inverter.

 

Looking closer, it seems the heavy cables have been bodged together under heatshrink so perhaps it is working, but the panels should still not be connected to those large wires.  I also doubt the cables are large enough for a 3kW inverter at full power.

[David J Smith]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Normally the really thick wires on an inverter are the battery cables, so it seems your inverter is, for some reason, inoperative. These cables supply 12V to the inverter and if it is am inverter cum battery charger  also supply any charge to the batteries. There should be two or four much smaller connections. Solar pos. in, solar neg. in, and possibly a solar dump lead pair.

 

I do not recognize that as a quality charger and you do not identify it so this is generic, not for your specific inverter. It would not surprise me if it is broken.

Hi again Tony. No its not broken. The inverter works fine.As does the battery charger. 

Dave

[David J Smith]

Try this for size. 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

Hi again Tony. No its not broken. The inverter works fine.As does the battery charger. 

Dave

 

Just googled so this is probably the manual:

https://manualzz.com/doc/7306084/solar-inverter---plan-my

 

Yes, I can now see those thick cables have been joined under heatshrink, not what I would call best practice but look at the difference in cable size between the tails on the inverter and the cables emerging from the grey trunking. The cable coming from the trunking looks suspiciously like petrol car sized starter cable and not only is that far too small for the 300 amps that inverter is likely to draw at full load, but also less than the 25sq mm CCSA the BSS requires for battery cable. I think that if you drive the inverter at full power you risk overheated cables and possibly a fire.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

Hi again Tony. No its not broken. The inverter works fine.As does the battery charger. 

Dave

 

In which case I'd suggest (as Tony hinted) that this may not safe to use the way it is currently wired.

 

If you put a load of 3Ww on it it will be drawing some 300 amps from the batteries - what size (not diameter - but conductor size) are the thinner cables the fat cables are connected to.

[David J Smith]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I don't think anyone with limited electrical knowledge should be messing about trying to install an inverter that produces potentially lethal 230V alternating current. 

 

If indeed that's what the OP is doing... 

I won't be. My son is a qualified sparks. but knows nowt about inverters or solar.

 

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just googled so this is probably the manual:

https://manualzz.com/doc/7306084/solar-inverter---plan-my

 

Yes, I can now see those thick cables have been joined under heatshrink, not what I would call best practice but look at the difference in cable size between the tails on the inverter and the cables emerging from the grey trunking. The cable coming from the trunking looks suspiciously like petrol car sized starter cable and not only is that far too small for the 300 amps that inverter is likely to draw at full load, but also less than the 25sq mm CCSA the BSS requires for battery cable. I think that if you drive the inverter at full power you risk overheated cables and possibly a fire.

Thanks again. Ever wished you had not stated something?

[PeterF]

Just now, David john Smith said:

I won't be. My son is a qualified sparks. but knows nowt about inverters or solar.

 

Qualified for domestic electrics does not equal qualified for boat electrics, there are a whole different set of regs and does / don'ts.

[Tony Brooks]

 

Here you go, taken from the manual i linked to. Solar connections marked a B

[David J Smith]

2 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

I won't be. My son is a qualified sparks. but knows nowt about inverters or solar.

 

Thanks again. Ever wished you had not stated something?

Thanks again both. I won't be touching it. I've decided to have someone in to do it properly. 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

I won't be. My son is a qualified sparks. but knows nowt about inverters or solar.

 

Thanks again. Ever wished you had not stated something?

 

I know how you feel, sorry I missed those joined pigtails.

 

It is probably all for the best because now you know from more than one person that the cable size is very suspect.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

I won't be. My son is a qualified sparks. but knows nowt about inverters or solar.

 

Do not use a 'domestic' (house wiring) electrician. If he does it according to 'bricks and mortar' wiring regs it will not comply with Boat wiring regs.

[David J Smith]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Here you go, taken from the manual i linked to. Solar connections marked a B

Aha. Is that from a manual of my inverter? As I think i've seen that. And thats exactly where the two blanked off wires are coming from.

Dave

[MrsM]

Morning David and congratulations on buying your first boat. Is your boat a Polish built Amber boat by any chance? I believe we have the same combi inverter. It is branded Multicell. The company is still in existence but are no longer doing these inverters. Ours was also fitted new in 2008. Will dig out my manual and post pix from phone.

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

Thanks again both. I won't be touching it. I've decided to have someone in to do it properly. 

 

Also check the V(oc) marked on your solar panels.  The manual states that your controller can handle 17-25V at 30A.

 

This may affect how the solar panels need wiring up to the controller, or indeed if your chosen panels are compatible with your controller.