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Overplating of swim on the stern


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Hi all,

Thanks for accepting me to your forum!  I'm considering purchasing a 45ft springer narrowboat, however she needs the swim overplating.  I believe that the rest of her hull is ok.  Would anybody know how much this would cost to put right?  I live in the north west.

Many thanks for your help

Zoe 

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Who advised you of the work required. If owner, why has he not had the work done?

Just saying, buying an old boat and this is an old boat,  get a survey done, out of water, costs about £1000 or less.

Some folks like boats like Springers, they probably are experienced.

If your skills include welding, boat electrics,  engine rebuilds, just ignore me :)

PS boats are a luxury few can afford.

If you are buying a boat as cheap housing, be very very careful.

if you have unlimited cash to spend on a boat, well good luck!

 

Edited by LadyG
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It does beg the question as to why only the swim would need overplating. I'd have thought it wise to get a surveyor's opinion.

 

One problem with overplating the swim is that it will change the engine cooling capability if there is a skin tank on the inside. However if it's a cruiser stern it may be realistically possible to replate rather than overplate. 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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I'd agree with Captain Pegg regarding the re plating as this area of the boat will have access inside and out - if a skin tank is present it will likely need attention and won't work efficiently if over plated.

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15 minutes ago, BWM said:

I'd agree with Captain Pegg regarding the re plating as this area of the boat will have access inside and out - if a skin tank is present it will likely need attention and won't work efficiently if over plated.

I suspect the OP is not familiar with these terms just sayin', caveat emptor, get a surveyor, look at a few boats, don't rush in where angels fear to tread.

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1 hour ago, Zanyzoya said:

Thanks for your reply LadyG, it was the seller who told me this in the advert.  I am viewing her on Sunday so I'll ask if I can get a survey🙂  Thanks for your advice. 🙂  

You don't need to ask - if the seller says he won't allow the boat to be inspected out of water by a surveyor, walk away. (You will of course have to pay for it to be taken out of water plus the cost of a surveyor - in all around £1000.)

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18 minutes ago, bizzard said:

If it's an early Springer it could well have a Lister air cooled engine and so no skin tank to bother about.

 

In which case it will probobaly have air vents (Jalousies) in the side - overplating can affect the waterline height which was the reason that the (Springer) sank on the River Thames.

 

Accident report :

 

On the 24th August 2012 a Narrowboat was delivered by road to South Dock Marina in London for a new owner. The vessel was lifted into the dock and the new owner requested to lock out of the marina as they had an overnight berth in Limehouse Marina; a short distance up the River Thames. The vessel departed the lock at 17:00 with 5 adults and 1 dog aboard. As they departed the lock the lock keeper commented to that they should have lifejackets on board as they appeared to be missing. The crew decided to continue on and left the lock with 3 adults in the aft cockpit and 2 adults in the cabin. The vessel transited directly across the river to the starboard side of the channel and then turned upriver towards Limehouse Marina. Shortly into their transit the crew noted a change in the engine note and opened the engine room hatch to find the engine half submerged. All persons quickly moved to the stern to try and bail out the engine room, but were unable to cope with the ingress of water into the vessel. The engine room continued to fill with water and flooded into the main cabin, submerging the aft coaming below the water, resulting in severe flooding of the vessel which sank within 10 seconds. All of the crew and the dog entered the water without lifejackets, but were rescued by a nearby RIB and Police Launch.

 

Safety Lessons The hull of the vessel had been completely double plated and the increased weight of this plating had resulted in a reduced safety clearance; with the bottom of the engine room vent being positioned approximately 65mm above the waterline. With 3 persons positioned on the aft deck the bottom of the engine room air vent became submerged beneath the waterline by 50mm, the resulting downflooding and sinking of the vessel was inevitable.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Zanyzoya said:

The purchase price of the boat is £3500, plus and extra £3500 for a reconditioned Lister SR2 2 cylinder engine, 2-1 reduction gearbox and prop (also from same seller).  The mechanical bits above need fitting (which my hubby can do).  

Which gearbox ? The manual Lister LM100 will have a long change lever sticking up with a large sweeping arc to change from forards backards. The Lister LH150 is a much better choice, a hydraulic assisted change which only needs a short lightweight dual control lever which works both gearchange and engine throttle in one, Whereas the manual LM100 box would need a separate throttle control as well as the big gear lever.

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17 minutes ago, Zanyzoya said:

The purchase price of the boat is £3500, plus and extra £3500 for a reconditioned Lister SR2 2 cylinder engine, 2-1 reduction gearbox and prop (also from same seller).  The mechanical bits above need fitting (which my hubby can do).  

 

Words of warning, take heed or not. The description reconditioned has no legal meaning. It could be anything from a quick wash down & paint to a strip, measure, machine as required and  rebuild with new parts. I would want to see invoices for the machining and new parts.

 

So you are thinking of paying £7000 + £1000 survey fee for a 45ft Springer, which have a V bottom and some were made of 1/8" steel plate (I am not sure a 45 ft one will be, but it could easily be only 6mm hull plates). They are old and will be rusty. I would suspect that if the swims need replacing so will much of the hull. I think this sounds far too cheap and stands every chance to be an attempt to sell a load of trouble on to  a novice boater.

 

I am not sure if it is worth proceeding because that £1000 for a survey could end up being  wasted.

 

If this is not for live-aboard use (so a holiday boat) I feel you could get a GRP narrow beam canal cruised in a better condition for the same or less money. Please take great care.

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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Which gearbox ? The manual Lister LM100 will have a long change lever sticking up with a large sweeping arc to change from forards backards. The Lister LH150 is a much better choice, a hydraulic assisted change which only needs a short lightweight dual control lever which works both gearchange and engine throttle in one, Whereas the manual LM100 box would need a separate throttle control as well as the big gear lever.

 

5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Which gearbox ? The manual Lister LM100 will have a long change lever sticking up with a large sweeping arc to change from forards backards. The Lister LH150 is a much better choice, a hydraulic assisted change which only needs a short lightweight dual control lever which works both gearchange and engine throttle in one, Whereas the manual LM100 box would need a separate throttle control as well as the big gear lever.

The LH150 box is about 3'' longer than the LM100 box, including the 2.1 reduction unit on either,       in case this matters.

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7 hours ago, Zanyzoya said:

I'm considering purchasing a 45ft springer narrowboat, however she needs the swim overplating.  I believe that the rest of her hull is ok.  Would anybody know how much this would cost to put right?

 

Budget for £10,000 or a bit less. Springers are a right pig to overplate. 

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Thanks for your help everyone, I’ve decided to steer clear and look for a grp instead, it sounds like a much safer option. 
My plan is to buy a do-er-upper for my son to live in whilst he’s at university to avoid burning money on rent. That way he can sail it back after graduation. 👍.  He can then either live in it or sell and put towards a house deposit. This is all his idea, and hubby has the skills to help him do the work. Son is only 14 at the moment so we have plenty of diy time on our hands. He very luckily won a couple of thousand pounds on premium bonds a couple of months ago and wants to invest it in his future. (Not bad for his £100 birthday money put in premium bonds last year  🤣🤣😊) I’m going to add some extra cash to help him out. 

Today I saw highbridge crusader (32ft grp) which seems a good hybrid between a narrow boat and a cruiser. The boat is for sale at £6000 (I bartered down from £10,000. It’s currently in the water. They are also selling a brand new Beta 14 engine. 
 

Does this sound a better bet lovely people? 

Edited by Zanyzoya
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On 24/06/2022 at 16:17, LadyG said:

I suspect the OP is not familiar with these terms just sayin', caveat emptor, get a surveyor, look at a few boats, don't rush in where angels fear to tread.

You’ve got my number LadyG  - total boating newbie 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Unless I was destitute I would not consider a GRP cruiser as a liveaboard boat.  They simply are not designed for that and, as a 'doer upper' they have many difficulties peculiar to their construction and intended use.    A steel narrowboat is a much better bet.

 

However as a "total boating newbie" you stand on the edge of a minefield.  There are hundreds, if not thousands.of "project boats" aka ' doer uppers' out there.  Most, IMO, make little or no progress between owners.  Many go down hill. Mainly because buyers radically under estimate the time, costs and sheer effort required to achieve a boat refit.  You should  make a careful  estimate of the time, the money and the other resources (survey, purchase, licences , mooring, Boat Safety certificates,   insurance, tools, travel......) you think will be needed by your project.  Then double the time and treble the money, adjusting the resource accordingly.  If you still want to go ahead, make friends  with someone with  recent  experience of a project boat and pick their brains, encourage them to help you and act as your mentor.  Allow for the beer, spirits and/or wine they will undoubtedly need to be provided with in your resource estimate😊.

 

Then  go and lie down in a darkened room until the idea of a project boat goes away.  If it does not, Go For It.  You are well placed to be one of the few who succeed.

 

N

 

 

Edited by BEngo
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If the timeframe is four years twixt now and university, I would also add in costs for keeping a boat. I'll be honest, when at uni, the student should be spending most of his time on campus rather than messing about with a boat, which is not cheap, absolutely not cheap.

Other opportunities may come along, plans may change, a boat can soon become a millstone.

 

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48 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If the timeframe is four years twixt now and university, I would also add in costs for keeping a boat. I'll be honest, when at uni, the student should be spending most of his time on campus rather than messing about with a boat, which is not cheap, absolutely not cheap.

Other opportunities may come along, plans may change, a boat can soon become a millstone.

 

Maybe I’ll just have to bite the bullet and get a second mortgage to buy a rental terraced house or something if he doesn’t want to waste money on rent then 🤷‍♀️. It was a good try. 

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17 minutes ago, Zanyzoya said:

Maybe I’ll just have to bite the bullet and get a second mortgage to buy a rental terraced house or something if he doesn’t want to waste money on rent then 🤷‍♀️. It was a good try. 

If you can do that and rent out a spare room to another student that should easily cover a mortgage. Also doesn't getting a boat for your son to live on whilst at uni in 4 years time rather restrict his choice of universities to those with available moorings nearby? I shudder to think of a youngster trying to to juggle living away from home, settling into uni life and managing within cc restrictions. I'm an ex 6th form teacher and I don't underestimate the talents and abilities of young people but I think that would be a big ask. 

Edited by MrsM
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My opinion. 

That Springer I wouldn't touch it with Tracy's bargepole ( or anyone else's)

That Highbridge you mentioned, I was interested and looked hard at the ad and asked the seller a couple of questions but it looks to be quite a major project.It has no engine but the seller says he has a Beta available.

These boats are either outboard powered or have an inboard engine with an outdrive. An outdrive is bad news on a canal boat as they get rather more 'hammer' than on a river or seaboat,and are expensive to repair and service as there are few specialists for them.

An engineless Highbridge in that state is not a bargain at £6000.

A decent steel narrowboat would be your best bet, but you will not get anything worth having at 10 or even 20K.

A good grp cruiser can be had for less than 10K although it will need heating and insulation if it is to be lived on.

Have a look at Norman, Viking, and Dawncraft if you need narrowbeam, and Seamaster, Birchwood, Elysian if a wider beam is compatable with the canals it will be on.

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