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DIY Fuel Polishing...


robtheplod

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56 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

It's worth giving your boat a list to cause any water to roll down to the lowest point. If you can arrange it so this is below the filler pulling it out with a pela pump is easy.

 

 

IMG-20220619-WA0001.jpg

 

 

 

 

Or, in our case :

 

Not much diesel on top of a lot of water ....................

 

 

20210911-150308.jpg

 

 

 

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I tried my spherical-type Pela last year, but the tube was too narrow and got blocked with crud. I got a cheap 12v vacuum pump from eBay, a 25 litre plastic container, a curved length of 3/8” copper pipe, and some clear hose, and that was reasonably successful apart from the container’s tendency to collapse alarmingly under vacuum - I’ve not found a suitably robust replacement, so I’ve just bought a larger (and cheaper) a Pela-alike clone which has a 10mm inlet tube.

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20 hours ago, Rob-M said:

I doubt RCR would include it, when I've had them do an engine service it included changing the engine oil, the oil filter and the fuel filter only.  They didn't change the filter in the fuel pump on the first two services, the third one did but it was an extra charge for the additional filter.  They don't change gearbox oil either or coolant.

 

Interesting, when I got them to service mine when I broke my leg, I asked the guy to change the gearbox oil and clean the WASP filter, which he did free of charge. I did however have to pay for extra oil as my Beta 43 takes about 9 litres and the standard service only includes 5.

 

Does anyone know if the fuel pump on a Beta 43 a filter in the fuel pump? If it does mines a bit overdue (by about 10 years! ☹️).

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4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Interesting, when I got them to service mine when I broke my leg, I asked the guy to change the gearbox oil and clean the WASP filter, which he did free of charge. I did however have to pay for extra oil as my Beta 43 takes about 9 litres and the standard service only includes 5.

 

Does anyone know if the fuel pump on a Beta 43 a filter in the fuel pump? If it does mines a bit overdue (by about 10 years! ☹️).

 

To the best of my knowledge no. it's the cylindrical electric filters on Mitsubishi based engine that have the filter, or any other engine with one of those pumps. If the engine has a decent water trap and pre-filter the one in the pump should be redundant.

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18 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Tony, I'm asking because I'm considering ways of getting rid of any water that might be starting to accumulate at the bottom of the tank, as a preventive step. 

I've got a siphon tube but its a straight length of fairly rigid plastic, and of course I'll need a bent tube to reach into all the corners of the tanks base. 

I'm surprised the chandleries dont sell a suitable tube with a simple hand pump attached, as it seems it would be something a lot of boaters might/should be interested in using, even as a periodic check. 

 

 

 

I use something similar to one of these into 4 pint milk containers. It has a corrugated plastic tube which easily reaches the bottom of the tank, and can be wiggled around the perimeter.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373117116254?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQjw2MWVBhCQARIsAIjbwoOTgAQXWdo9iqYUfLLUK0cyWNnDpasq9RTsne_TeTHzAuaa4amjOxwaAiRJEALw_wcB

Edited by cuthound
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6 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I use something similar to one of these into 4 pint milk containers. It has a corrugated plastic tube which easily reaches the bottom of the tank, and can be wiggled around the perimeter.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373117116254?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQjw2MWVBhCQARIsAIjbwoOTgAQXWdo9iqYUfLLUK0cyWNnDpasq9RTsne_TeTHzAuaa4amjOxwaAiRJEALw_wcB

 

Cheers, that's very similar to the one I got from ebay, so it looks like the plastic tube on mine will bend enough to reach the corners.

I'm planning to give it a go in the next day or two, just to see if there is any water or crap down there. Its less than 7 years old so fingers crossed there'll be nothing major, but its all about preventive checking. 

I only got interested because in the colder weather, I was finding that my engine would start up from cold but only run for about 5 seconds, then die.

On the second start it would always carry on running. 

Someone I mentioned it to said (I think) that it sounded more like an issue related to air in the return. Whatever it was he said exactly, it meant nothing to me, but I didnt have time to question him and understand what he was saying, but it's unlikely to be crud in the fuel. But that said, there's no harm in getting rid of any water or crud that might be starting to accumulate under there.

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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8 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Someone I mentioned it to said (I think) that it sounded more like an issue related to air in the return.

 

I have a very succinct answer to that suggestion but not for the forum! Air in the return ends up venting via the tank breather.

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15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have a very succinct answer to that suggestion but not for the forum! Air in the return ends up venting via the tank breather.

 

Thanks Tony, and tbh its more likely that I've misunderstood or misremembered his advice- he's been boating for a good few years and runs a vintage diesel of some sort, so I'm guessing there's a decent chance he has some idea what he's on about.

I also recall he advised me to check for any fuel leaks - I think he said in the return pipes, but unfortunately I'm not sure where those are- as that might indicate air entering the fuel somehow. 

This is the problem with someone who has no technical knowledge trying to relay advice from someone else, and from a few months ago.

I fear I've forgotten or mis-phrased some important detail in the recounting of his words. 

Since I've mentioned it, can I ask- what do you think might be the cause of an engine starting and running for maybe 3-5 seconds, and then stopping? 

Its not happening now, in the warmer weather we've got, but it was until a month or so ago, and it becomes more noticeable when the weather gets colder.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have a very succinct answer to that suggestion but not for the forum! Air in the return ends up venting via the tank breather.

My return was routed incorrectly back through the filter and didn’t vent back to the tank.. could this be the problem ?

polite comments only please!

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9 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

My return was routed incorrectly back through the filter and didn’t vent back to the tank.. could this be the problem ?

polite comments only please!

If the OP's is like this the absolutely true but the old Volvo MD range did this from the factory with no ill effects. However, in my experience the system would not restart until  bled, and it took a lot longer for air to build up and stop it.

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9 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Tony, and tbh its more likely that I've misunderstood or misremembered his advice- he's been boating for a good few years and runs a vintage diesel of some sort, so I'm guessing there's a decent chance he has some idea what he's on about.

I also recall he advised me to check for any fuel leaks - I think he said in the return pipes, but unfortunately I'm not sure where those are- as that might indicate air entering the fuel somehow. 

This is the problem with someone who has no technical knowledge trying to relay advice from someone else, and from a few months ago.

I fear I've forgotten or mis-phrased some important detail in the recounting of his words. 

Since I've mentioned it, can I ask- what do you think might be the cause of an engine starting and running for maybe 3-5 seconds, and then stopping? 

Its not happening now, in the warmer weather we've got, but it was until a month or so ago, and it becomes more noticeable when the weather gets colder.

 

 

 

More likely an air leak into the fuel delivery side. The short time it takes to stop suggests it leaks in while the engine is stopped, so maybe contracting warm fuel plus something like a crushed compression joint, faulty filter seals, a small crack in  a fuel component.

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A drain point at the lowest part of the tank will remove the water and much of the crud; the small amount remaining will probably not get lifted up the dip pipe and if it is, the filters should cope.

 

For the economically minded, if a reasonable quantity of fuel/muck is drawn off into a container, it can be left to settle for a day or so.  The clean diesel rises to the surface and can be returned to the tank with care.

 

 

 

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When we had fuel issues we had an MLS MFP2 fuel purifier fitted.  This removed lots of water and crud and now after about every 50 hours of running I drain some diesel off in to a clear container and it is usually fine and gets put back in the tank.

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13 minutes ago, Tacet said:

A drain point at the lowest part of the tank will remove the water and much of the crud; the small amount remaining will probably not get lifted up the dip pipe and if it is, the filters should cope.

 

 

True in as far as it goes. Most narrow boats have their fuel tanks across the stern and trim down by the stern so where is the lowest point. I doubt the BSS and EA would be happy with a drain facility fitted on the stern and below the water line. A low point drain on a typical narrow  boat would need an internal pipe from the drain outlet to the lowest point in the tank. In my view it is the easiest and more certain of removing the vast bulk of any water to do it via the filler by the means discussed here.

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19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

In my view it is the easiest and more certain of removing the vast bulk of any water to do it via the filler by the means discussed here.

 

Or, the inspection hatch which gives a much bigger hole straight into the tank, (on some boats the filler is offset and a kinky-hose connects to the tank).

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On 20/06/2022 at 22:09, Cheshire cat said:

It's worth giving your boat a list to cause any water to roll down to the lowest point. If you can arrange it so this is below the filler pulling it out with a pela pump is easy.

 

 

IMG-20220619-WA0001.jpg

This is exactly what I do every 6 months or so. Draw off about 4 litres, decant into a clean container and take home. At home check for any water and use for garden bonfires. If any water is found, repeat.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

True in as far as it goes. Most narrow boats have their fuel tanks across the stern and trim down by the stern so where is the lowest point. I doubt the BSS and EA would be happy with a drain facility fitted on the stern and below the water line. A low point drain on a typical narrow  boat would need an internal pipe from the drain outlet to the lowest point in the tank. In my view it is the easiest and more certain of removing the vast bulk of any water to do it via the filler by the means discussed here.

A drain pipe fitted at the bottom of the front plate of the fuel tank, then run across the counter plate and terminating inside the vee of the swim plate would be as near as possible to the bottom of the tank, yet it is possible to put a container below the end of the pipe to collect the fuel drained off. It won't get everything from the bottom of the tank, but will be better than most boats have.

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Poking a copper tube down to the bottom of the tank is the way to go as you can try to stir up any sludge and also move the pipe towards the ends of the tank, maybe even a little selection of pipes with various kinks in them.

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2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 

A Ray Davies pipe or a Lola pipe perhaps. The sludge will think 'You Really Got Me'

 

N

I mostly let Spotify choose what I listen to these days, much more exciting than choosing myself and I get to discover a load of new stuff. A couple of days ago Lola turned up, its still a very good song, even more appropriate today than it was all those years ago.

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