Jump to content

BSS survey fees rip off


Stevenet

Featured Posts

55 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

And with boats there is the additional thing of tramping the towpath or up and down miles of pontoons in a marina looking for the boat called "Kingfisher", finding it and it being the wrong "Kingfisher"...

 

 

 

Sounds like the ideal circumstance in which to use https://what3words.com/about

 

Sorry if I've opened up that can of worms again.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

That is probably true but life doesn't work like that. I could easily do four landlord gas safety inspections in a day under an equivalent set of assumptions but what happens in reality is the four inspection that day are spread over a 100 mile radius, or to get four near to each other, they want them done on different days. Or if you do manage to get four together on the same day in the same area, they all want them done in the morning or when you get there, one is an utter tip, one there is no answer when you knock the door, and the third says the landlord didn't tell them and it's not convenient, can I come back tomorrow. 

 

And of course all the phone calls and arranging takes up half a day too! Bottom line nowadays is I do them one at a time and charge for the time travelling there and back too. It's the only way, and I can imagine something similar with BSS inspections. 

 

And with boats there is the additional thing of tramping the towpath or up and down miles of pontoons in a marina looking for the boat called "Kingfisher", finding it and it being the wrong "Kingfisher"...

 

 

I used to do house structural surveys so I know what you mean . So yes doing two or three together is not necessarily all that easy. It was a rare event with house surveys. And yes there is time taking instructions and sending invoices an processing the BSS cert - it all takes time . 

 

But BSS should be less urgent than a house survey  . I dare say some leave it until the last minute.

 

My thoughts about BSS inspector role were to stick with the local area where there are plenty of boats  and mostly GRP cruisers and to do it as a job after retirement from full time employment. So getting a full days work  in would not be a requirement for me . But really the training fee that BSS charge  is the main deal breaker . 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

really the training fee that BSS charge  is the main deal breaker . 

 

According to the ex-BSS examiners I know, the fees are bad enough but the final deal breaker was their mandatory residential training courses at a time to suit the organisation.  Not a list of dates you can choose from, just a "You must attend such-and-such a course on these dates in some random location to keep your registration" email.

 

The grownups decided not to bother anymore - one is a well regarded boat builder and the other is a well regarded marine surveyor - and they both started doing BSS exams as a sideline service to their main business.  Too much hoop jumping put them off bothering for the money they'd make.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 17/06/2022 at 15:31, jonathanA said:

In fairness I think you are quoting extremes Alan.

 

I recently had a bss done by a new to me examiner. He was very clear he expected it to take at least 3 hours for my conventional straightforward boat (simple electrics only gas to cooker etc).

 

I think I paid 170 quid. He was there over 3 hours and I'd say he did a thorough job, clearly knew his stuff from the conversation we had. He did comment that it had been quicker than he expected because I had everything clearly labelled and laid out and he could see everything he needed to easily 

 

I thought that was good value. 

 

That was my experience too. New to me examiner, who charged £170. He was on the boat for 3 hours, then spent 30 minutes talking to me before announcing it had passed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

According to the ex-BSS examiners I know, the fees are bad enough but the final deal breaker was their mandatory residential training courses at a time to suit the organisation.  Not a list of dates you can choose from, just a "You must attend such-and-such a course on these dates in some random location to keep your registration" email.

 

The grownups decided not to bother anymore - one is a well regarded boat builder and the other is a well regarded marine surveyor - and they both started doing BSS exams as a sideline service to their main business.  Too much hoop jumping put them off bothering for the money they'd make.

It's sad if real boat people stop doing the BS inspections. I suppose as long as the boat passes it's okay but it seems to be the wrong overall thing to happen. 

 

When I did my BTEC in marine engineering in 1995/96 the college was offering Boat Safety courses for £1275 for a two week course.

 

Not sure if any prior knowledge was needed but I think at the time (mandatory BS started in 1995) probably not as the idea was to get people who could perform the examinations.

 

No doubt more hoops to jump through now. 

 

BS by name BS by nature. 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, MoominPapa said:

I'm perfectly capable of inspecting my boat to determine if it's safe, so I just want the piece of paper to give to CRT; the cheaper the better.

 

MP.

I couldn't agree more.

 

Not for one minute am I saying that the BSS hasn't saved lives and injuries, but it also feathers the nests of the companies that train the examiners, the examiners themselves and the C&RT who charge for each completed examination, particularly when the examination takes less than an hour and costs around £200 which applies to my last three, the shortest of which took 25 minutes.

 

Of course, some boat owners really do need a qualified 3rd party to advise them on safety matters, others are more competent and don't. 

 

If you don't know where and how to run a gas pipe etc, etc. best you pay £250 and get a long and comprehensive inspection.

 

Not so many years ago Arthur Ransome wrote:

"Better drowned than duffers, if not duffers won't drown."

An attitude that still exists for the

many thousands of boats on tidal waters around the country where there is no requirement for any sort of safety inspection at all, or licenses for that matter and I look forward to someone offering the statistics comparing the number of accidents that have occurred on these boats with those on the boats that are required to have a BSS certificate.

 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

 If you don't know where and how to run a gas pipe etc, etc. best you pay £250 and get a long and comprehensive inspection.

 

 

If you don't know how to do it, get someone to do it for you, not relying on a quick look maybe 3 years and 11 months later 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 17/06/2022 at 16:58, Loddon said:

 

Have you thought that he/she may have priced it high as they don't want  to do your boat :)

 

 

I once had an inspection and the guy said, "It's so nice to come to a tidy boat with a clean engine space. You wouldn't believe some of the crap I have to go inside." 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:
 4 hours ago, Stevenet said:

What I am offended about is that these costs are unregulated and we do not have choice but to get it done. After all it’s a boat MoT. 

 

 

Aren't the costs of car MOTs unregulated too? I'm not sure but I've seen a wide variety of prices.

 

Anyway if that's our comparison then what would 4 years worth of car MOTs cost? 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

.........many thousands of boats on tidal waters around the country where there is no requirement for any sort of safety inspection at all, or licenses for that matter

 

 

Some 300,000 leisure boats on coastal waters compared to some 80,000 on the Inland waterways.

Commercial boats on 'lumpy water' do have to meet much, much more extreme safety checks than the BSS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Some 300,000 leisure boats on coastal waters compared to some 80,000 on the Inland waterways.

Commercial boats on 'lumpy water' do have to meet much, much more extreme safety checks than the BSS.

Any idea how many accidents on each, that would indicate if the BSS made a difference, or is it more gravy train than a safety scheme?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Aren't the costs of car MOTs unregulated too? I'm not sure but I've seen a wide variety of prices.

 

Anyway if that's our comparison then what would 4 years worth of car MOTs cost? 

 

MoT prices ARE regulated. Your observations are because a garage can offer a lower price; but the maximum is set by the government, currently at £54.85 (for a class 4, ie car).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Anyway if that's our comparison then what would 4 years worth of car MOTs cost? 

A BSS examination should be much cheaper than 4x MOTs, as the inspector hasn't had to buy or rent a garage/workshop or equip it with very expensive rolling road, car lifts, gas analysis equipment etc, or pay for ongoing maintenance and calibration of the same.

 

My last BSS inspector wasn't vat registered and he didn't even have a bank account dedicated to his business, it was very much a sideline with almost zero overheads apart from fuel for his car. £200 is expensive for less time than it takes for an MOT for ones car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Any idea how many accidents on each, that would indicate if the BSS made a difference, or is it more gravy train than a safety scheme?

 

Very few, but no idea on numbers - the most recent accidents, which could have equivalents on the inlad waterways reported by the MAIB have all tended to be around CO poisoning.You would expect anyone with any sense would have a CO alarm anyway. buy they are mandatory in the BSS

 

The vast majority of MAIB reports could not happen on the canals - such as "loading a car transport, fatal injury - car falls on crewman,  etc etc

 

Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

All but 1 (a fishing vessel) of the Carbon Monoxide poisonings investigated have been leisure 'crusier type' vessels In York, Lake district, the Thames and other inland sites.

 

Over the past ten years MAIB has investigated six incidents involving carbon monoxide poisoning resulting in the tragic loss of ten lives. The majority of these incidents occurred on board motor cruisers used for recreation.

 

 

 

At about 2000 on 4 December 2019, the bodies of two men were discovered in the cabin of the privately owned motor cruiser Diversion, which was moored to a quay in the centre of York, England. The bodies were those of the boat owner and his friend, who had spent the previous evening in the city centre socialising with former work colleagues and were spending the night on board.

Both men had died as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning. The carbon monoxide had leaked into the cabin from the boat’s diesel-fuelled cabin heater exhaust.

 

 

The UK’s Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) has today published its report following an investigation into the fatal accident which occurred on board the motor cruiser Vasquez.

On 12 November 2016, Ray Milton, the owner of the 7.75m motor cruiser Vasquez fell unconscious after being overcome by carbon monoxide (CO) that had been emitted from his boat’s inboard petrol engine.

Although rescuers came to his aid and conducted cardio-pulmonary resuscitation, it was not possible to save his life. Two of the rescuers had to be treated for the effects of CO poisoning following the accident.

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

A BSS examination should be much cheaper than 4x MOTs, as the inspector hasn't had to buy or rent a garage/workshop or equip it with very expensive rolling road, car lifts, gas analysis equipment etc, or pay for ongoing maintenance and calibration of the same.

 

My last BSS inspector wasn't vat registered and he didn't even have a bank account dedicated to his business, it was very much a sideline with almost zero overheads apart from fuel for his car. £200 is expensive for less time than it takes for an MOT for ones car.

 

I believe a car mot takes about 45 minutes and the customer has to take the car to the test station.

 

Do you expect travelling time for free? Do you expect to pay for fuel only and not  a mileage rate that reflects all  car running costs .

Zero overheads ? -  what about the fees paid to BSS and the training  fees and insurance ?

 

If you can train up and do BSS exams for £100 each certificate  I guarantee to employ you to do so for as long as I own a boat and I suspect you will never be short of work. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Very few, but no idea on numbers - the most recent accidents, which could have equivalents on the inlad waterways reported by the MAIB have all tended to be around CO poisoning.You would expect anyone with any sense would have a CO alarm anyway. buy they are mandatory in the BSS

 

The vast majority of MAIB reports could not happen on the canals - such as "loading a car transport, fatal injury - car falls on crewman,  etc etc

 

Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Which begs the question, how much difference has the BSS inspection made?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Bargebuilder said:

Which begs the question, how much difference has the BSS inspection made?

 

 

 

Off the top of my head I'd be tempted to say none

 

BUT

 

We do not know how many potential serious failures have been identified during the examination, have been rectified so have stopped a future accident.

 

I would say that my own experiences mean I am very anti BSS as it stands - it needs a major overhaul of not only the systems but the 'quality' of the actual inspection and the frequent application of the examiners 'understanding / interpretation' of the rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Do you expect travelling time for free? Do you expect to pay for fuel only and not  a mileage rate that reflects all  car running costs .

Zero overheads ? -  what about the fees paid to BSS and the training  fees and insurance ?

Seriously?

For my last inspection I contacted six inspectors all within 5 miles of the boat. What mileage rate are you suggesting?

Have you any idea how much training and retraining is necessary to be an MOT inspector or how much car garages have to pay in insurance, far more than BSS inspectors I'm completely sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We do not know how many potential serious failures have been identified during the examination, have been rectified so have stopped a future accident.

Agreed, but we can compare inland where boats are certified to coastal where they are not for a very good area of lives saved.

 

I agree that a simpler, cheaper inspection would be preferable, identifying the really dangerous faults. No exorbitant residential training for inspectors, just what is necessary, no £57 to the scheme organisers for entering 'pass' onto a computer, and no more than £50 an hour for the inspector plus travelling expenses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

I believe a car mot takes about 45 minutes and the customer has to take the car to the test station.

 

Do you expect travelling time for free? Do you expect to pay for fuel only and not  a mileage rate that reflects all  car running costs .

 

I take my boat for testing, this time it took me about 8 or 9 days to get there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Seriously?

For my last inspection I contacted six inspectors all within 5 miles of the boat. What mileage rate are you suggesting?

Have you any idea how much training and retraining is necessary to be an MOT inspector or how much car garages have to pay in insurance, far more than BSS inspectors I'm completely sure.

Where is this location that has so many BSS inspectors - seems exceptional.

 

45p/mile - probably 50p/mile  at current fuel costs

The nearest examiner  to me is a 50 mile round trip

So there's an hour or so of his time to add to  the  mileage rate 

 

MOT testers can't travel to the car can they. The overheads are diluted by the number of cars tested per day (say 8 to 10) with an almost certain supply of work which is a much bigger number than BSS tests that can be done in a day (say 1 or 2 an exceptionally 3 ) with an unreliable supply of work.

 

What do you think a BSS exam and certificate should cost? 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I managed without a CO or smoke alarm for twenty five years without becoming dead. I'm surprised they haven't decided it's essential we all carry an anchor (obviously a specific make) and sixty foot of chain. I'm sure it's on the list, together with the internet tracker and the burglar alarm.

Seeing as how CRT can't even manage to force boats to display either a number or a licence, it's all a bit of an expensive farce, isn't it? I find it weird that anyone still thinks it has any kind of useful function. 

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Where is this location that has so many BSS inspectors - seems exceptional.

 

45p/mile - probably 50p/mile  at current fuel costs

The nearest examiner  to me is a 50 mile round trip

So there's an hour or so of his time to add to  the  mileage rate 

 

MOT testers can't travel to the car can they. The overheads are diluted by the number of cars tested per day (say 8 to 10) with an almost certain supply of work which is a much bigger number than BSS tests that can be done in a day (say 1 or 2 an exceptionally 3 ) with an unreliable supply of work.

 

What do you think a BSS exam and certificate should cost? 

 

 

 

I don't think they should cost anything. They're valueless and worthless.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.