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BSS survey fees rip off


Stevenet

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8 minutes ago, Stevenet said:

Unless you and he are snowflakes

 

 

Talking of which Lincolnshire Council are planning to send out the road gritters................

 

Doncaster Council has already reportedly sent out gritters, and now Lincolnshire County Council has confirmed the authority has theirs on standby.

The county council spokesperson said the authority will take reports from members of the public, highways and police officers as well as other officials.

 

Gritters could be sent out in the hot weather across Lincolnshire (planetradio.co.uk)

 

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50 minutes ago, Stevenet said:

I just requested a quote for a BSS survey. Unless you and he are snowflakes I don’t see how that can be taken the wrong way 

No, I think it was the entitled title of the post, particularly by a new poster that raised the hackles. I like this forum, and have stuck with it because of the general friendly and helpful attitude. But your coming across in a rather demanding way, and if you approached Mr Hemel Hempstead in a similar way, he probably decided to charge you the price you dislike.

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You could pay him (say) £50 an hour and if you are there for the examination you can see how many hours he is ACTUALLY working.

I you were the surveyor would you agree to that ?

Don't forget to allow for the fee he has to pay to BSS - around £50 or so I believe.

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2 hours ago, Stevenet said:

What I am offended about is that these costs are unregulated and we do not have choice but to get it done. After all it’s a boat MoT. 

Nothing like a MoT

They don't even start the engine ...............................or test the brakes .😀

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14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Probably helped get rid of a few scruffy boats when it started up, which was obviously the aim of the scheme. 

 

 

With the state of some "scruffy" boats you see know I'd want a hell of a lot more than 250 quid to step through the door. 

Can an examiner refuse to do the test when he turns up and sees the state of the boat? 

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3 hours ago, Stevenet said:

What I am offended about is that these costs are unregulated and we do not have choice but to get it done. After all it’s a boat MoT. 
 

The CRT are complicit. Why don’t they introduce tier levels!

 

In an ealier post you indicated that you have already been through several BSS examinations, so why are you suddenly "offended"

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5 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

With the state of some "scruffy" boats you see know I'd want a hell of a lot more than 250 quid to step through the door. 

Can an examiner refuse to do the test when he turns up and sees the state of the boat? 

My last one said he'd taken one look through the door of one boat, smelt the place and refused to go in on the grounds of personal safety.

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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

My last one said he'd taken one look through the door of one boat, smelt the place and refused to go in on the grounds of personal safety.

Exactly.  We've all seen/smelt them, festering away with black windows and mouldy curtains,  clutter all over both decks, a manky dog tied to a mooring pin..  and you cruise past and think, "who the hell would go in there long enough to do a safety cert?"

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 4 hours ago, Stevenet said:

What I am offended about is that these costs are unregulated and we do not have choice but to get it done. After all it’s a boat MoT. 

 

It is not compulsory on all waterways (even some inland waterways).

If it is that abhorent to you why not just put your boat onto waters where a BSS is not required ?

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The test is a waste of time and money, as anyone sensible kno.

I've had one who failed my fire extinguishers, surprise, he had a car-full to sell me so I'd pass, the one that failed my brand new electrics (installed by the previous examiner) because he didn't understand wiring, the one who made me cut unnecessary holes in the boat, the one who insisted on an addition to the gas locker... And the last one who said it passed with a gas leak within the tolerances but refused to leave till he found it, which seeing as how it was right by the cooker (on a fitting the test insisted I have), I was pleased about, but obviously an ordinary, non gas, safe examiner would have just left me with it. Safety? Don't make laugh. It's a desk jockey's box ticking exercise and a scam, and always was.

Hooray I was beginning to think everyone had been hoodwinked. It always has been a con.

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2 minutes ago, sueb said:

Hooray I was beginning to think everyone had been hoodwinked. It always has been a con.

 

 

I agree, but perhaps for different reasons. Two of them.

 

82 pages of tripe for the examiner to wade through, no wonder they take short cuts in an attempt to wring some profit out of the inspection.

 

Most of the checks are like Arthur says, imaginary risks dreamed up by a desk jockey and which never killed or injured anyone. 

 

82 pages of tests! Honestly! Surely the checks necessary to ensure genuine safety could be printed on one side of A4 No gas leaks, functional ventilation and flues on open flue appliances, fire extinguishers, CO alarms and safe electrics. For those to be done, £100-£150 seems reasonable. 

 

Secondly, the claim by BSS that the tests are to ensure the safety of passers-by is laughable. How many people have EVER been killed by a boat they were walking past? None I suspect. Certainly too few to justify the invasiveness and extent of the BSS

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15 minutes ago, MtB said:

Secondly, the claim by BSS that the tests are to ensure the safety of passers-by is laughable. How many people have EVER been killed by a boat they were walking past? None I suspect. Certainly too few to justify the invasiveness and extent of the BSS

 

Because it is the only way they can legally demand 'safety features' in a private residence - that's why you do not need a gas-safe certificate, or an Electricians report for a private house, but you do when rented and where there is a chance of 3rd parties being injured.

 

 

It was this justification that allowed for the introduction of CO alarms - not to inform you if your boat was producing CO which might kill you, BUT, it was that the CO might 'float' into another boat moored behind you - the fitting of an alarm would show you that another boater is 'trying to kill you'.

(Very flimsy)

 

 

It's not illegal to kill yourself, but it is to injure, kill, or assist a suicide.

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5 hours ago, jonathanA said:

In fairness I think you are quoting extremes Alan.

 

I recently had a bss done by a new to me examiner. He was very clear he expected it to take at least 3 hours for my conventional straightforward boat (simple electrics only gas to cooker etc).

 

I think I paid 170 quid. He was there over 3 hours and I'd say he did a thorough job, clearly knew his stuff from the conversation we had. He did comment that it had been quicker than he expected because I had everything clearly labelled and laid out and he could see everything he needed to easily 

 

I thought that was good value. 

 

Who did you use?  I'm recommending Greg Birkett currently - he came recommended to me by my previous examiners, both of whom stopped recently.

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6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

How much did it cost?

 

There are 167 pages in the examination manual including 82 pages of core checks to be done. There are typically two checks to perform on each page so that makes 164 checks to consider. If we imagine it takes five minutes to consider each check and investigate in full detail if necessary, that adds up to 820 minutes.

 

That's 13 hours, so one might speculate that any inspection taking less than that has had a few short cuts taken. 

 

 

 

The 167 pages are divided into sections, including one on inboard engine and one on outboard engines, and lots more i can't remember. I can't imagine there are many, if any boats that would need a check relating to every page of the examination.

That said I'm not a fan of the BSS, in principle it sounds a good idea, in practice it doesn't achieve its objective. 

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A lot of criticism of the BSS by posters is justified, but I did have one fail early in my period of owning Helvetia, which had it gone un-noticed for a long time could have resulted in a serious life threatening incident.  The test revealed a slight leak in the gas system, which had not been identified by the smell of gas. After the fail, I systematicly checked every gas union on the system, regularly checking pressure with a manometer. Eventually I discovered that the Gland Union carrying the gas pipe through the forward bulkhead, required a tiny amount of tightening, which eliminated the gas leak. After that incident, I made mt own manometer and regularly tested gas pressure.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Who did you use?  I'm recommending Greg Birkett currently - he came recommended to me by my previous examiners, both of whom stopped recently.

Paul Morris from St Helens. He is gas safe registered too. 

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17 hours ago, Stevenet said:

Can anyone advise a survey out with reasonable costs please? I’m in Hemel Hempstead. 

I suggest you look at the BSS website which can be searched for surveyors prepared to travel to your area .

I paid £180 in 2020 so would not be surprised to see higher than that now, especially due to fuel costs rising recently. The £180 was on the basis we had to wait for the surveyor to have other reasons to visit the marina eg for other BSS surveys on the same day. I had helped arrange another boat to be tested on the same day but I received no discount for that.

 

 

I would say they can do three or four  BSS's in a day if the boats are all in the same locality assuming a well kept boat and especially if familiar with the boat  with access not obscured by clutter.  I can imagine surveyors see some horrors which prolong an inspection or require a repeat visit. Then there are those that fail and require a repeat visit.

The surveyor I use is familiar with my boat in that he did the pre purchase survey for me in 2014 and he has done the BSS's since then. I know Alan always quotes the 'it passed before so it will pass again ' remark but there is some truth in that. I have made no relevant changes to my boat in 8 years other than add CO alarms. The main benefit of the BSS teat for me is the gas  system test .

 

It costs a tidy sum of £5k+VAT = £6k total to train to become a  surveyor and there are other cost to consider  like insurance to factor in.

Also the BSS have to be paid  a fee for each test which is £57.60 incl VAT and also an annual registration fee and mandatory update  training .

image.png.98f3d4abf1d66224a21caab5bb4857db.png

 

 

It had occurred to me to do the training  as I think I could do the job with the gas testing being the main gap in my understanding. But the training and other charges made by BSS are a deterrent especially for anyone like me who is not VAT registered.

 

On balance I don't know why anyone does it really.

 

 

 

Edited by MartynG
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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

I suggest you look at the BSS website which can be searched for surveyors prepared to travel to your area .

I paid £180 in 2020 so would not be surprised to see higher than that now, especially due to fuel costs rising recently. The £180 was on the basis we had to wait for the surveyor to have other reasons to visit the marina eg for other BSS surveys on the same day. I had helped arrange another boat to be tested on the same day but I received no discount for that.

 

 

I would say they can do three or four  BSS's in a day if the boats are all in the same locality assuming a well kept boat and especially if familiar with the boat  with access not obscured by clutter.  I can imagine surveyors see some horrors which prolong an inspection or require a repeat visit. Then there are those that fail and require a repeat visit.

The surveyor I use is familiar with my boat in that he did the pre purchase survey for me in 2014 and he has done the BSS's since then. I know Alan always quotes the 'it passed before so it will pass again ' remark but there is some truth in that. I have made no relevant changes to my boat in 8 years other than add CO alarms. The main benefit of the BSS teat for me is the gas  system test .

 

It costs a tidy sum of £5k+VAT = £6k total to train to become a  surveyor and there are other cost to consider  like insurance to factor in.

Also the BSS have to be paid  a fee for each test which is £57.60 incl VAT and also an annual registration fee and mandatory update  training .

image.png.98f3d4abf1d66224a21caab5bb4857db.png

 

 

It had occurred to me to do the training  as I think I could do the job with the gas testing being the main gap in my understanding. But the training and other charges made by BSS are a deterrent especially for anyone like me who is not VAT registered.

 

On balance I don't know why anyone does it really.

 

 

 

That's why apparently surveyors are leaving in droves. Costs a fortune to train and you can't do the job properly in a sensible time, even if you can see the point of it. We're ending up with loads fewer testers, so they have to travel further and can whack the charges up even more, while the idiots writing the rules add more and more drivel to the test just because they can - and as the people recommending the "improvements" are testers themselves, are happily increasing their own income by doing so. It's a good scam. And does absolutely nothing to get dangerous boats off the water, because they are unnamed, unnumbered, unlicensed and untested.

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

I would say they can do three or four  BSS's in a day if the boats are all in the same locality assuming a well kept boat and especially if familiar with the boat  with access not obscured by clutter. 

 

 

That is probably true but life doesn't work like that. I could easily do four landlord gas safety inspections in a day under an equivalent set of assumptions but what happens in reality is the four inspection that day are spread over a 100 mile radius, or to get four near to each other, they want them done on different days. Or if you do manage to get four together on the same day in the same area, they all want them done in the morning or when you get there, one is an utter tip, one there is no answer when you knock the door, and the third says the landlord didn't tell them and it's not convenient, can I come back tomorrow. 

 

And of course all the phone calls and arranging takes up half a day too! Bottom line nowadays is I do them one at a time and charge for the time travelling there and back too. It's the only way, and I can imagine something similar with BSS inspections. 

 

And with boats there is the additional thing of tramping the towpath or up and down miles of pontoons in a marina looking for the boat called "Kingfisher", finding it and it being the wrong "Kingfisher"...

 

 

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