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Compost toilets: separating fact from fiction (workshop)


Kate_MM

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1 hour ago, Alway Swilby said:

Is this survey the one carried out on Kate's Facebook page soon after CRT's announcement that we could no longer bag and bin using their bins? If so this survey is now out of date. Up until that time the official CRT advice was that it was OK to bag and bin and consequently many people including us followed official advice and did so. Things have changed since then. CRT officially no longer allow it and I would place a big bet that that 70% figure is now much reduced. I know many of the fellow separators that I am aquainted with via blogs and vlogs have switched to a cassette system. We now take our poo back to the house and compost it in our garden and I know of others who now also do the same having previously bagged and binned.

 

If it is a more recent survey then I stand corrected but would point out that at least one converted "composter" (me) didn't take part in any subsequent survey.

 

If it's the survey I did just after the CRT change in policy, the answer was 46.4% (148 respondents from 319) who had been binning prior to the change.  It was a small, online, non random, self selected survey therefore it can only provide an indication. It helped those of us concerned with supporting, advising and educating boaters who were anxious and distressed about the situation they found themselves in to provide help.

 

I spent yesterday evening analysing the responses to a repeat of the survey - I'll include some of the findings in the presentation.

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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I have nothing against the principle of separating toilets (in fact our family home built in 1660 had one - a three-seater, and it was still there in 1968 when I left home)

What I feel very strongly about is people preaching the benefits of 'composting toilets' (when they obviously are not) and when they do not actually make any effort to actually compost the solids, or, dispose of the liquid correctly (in an elsan point)

 

In a Facebook survey 70% of boaters with 'composting toilets' admitted that they simply dumped their waste in the C&RT Biffa bins every few day / weeks.

 

I am sure you are aware of the legislative requirements for human waste (Called 'Offensive Waste') to be bagged in 'tiger striped bags' and with not more than 7Kgs per bin per collection.

As C&RT cannot control how many bags are dumped per bin, or the weight per bin, BIFFA obviously got a bit miffed with C&RT and hence the start of the arguments about disposal and how unfair C&RT are being by changing the 'rules'.

 

For many, many years some Marinas have banned boats with separating toilets for that very reason - I remember (maybe 10 years ago) getting a letter from the marina saying that 'Composting Toilets' would not be allowed into the marina.

 

I do hope your old family home still has the three seater loo!

 

You mention a Facebook survey and 70% responding that they binned their waste - it would be helpful to know which survey and when as these things often get separated from their origins, shared and become an urban myth. I have run several online surveys but none returned 70%. I ran one just after the policy change in which 148 of 319 respondents (46.4%) said that they were binning prior to the announcement. I must also be clear that that was a self selected sample so care must be taken in making any wider assumptions but it was useful in helping to start conversations with CRT and exploring ways to work with boaters to effect change and increase proper thorough composting. I've done another more recently and will cover that on Thursday. CRT's estimate of the number of boaters with a separating toilet is about 5% but I think that masks a lot of, to my mind, essential detail such as the number of users, the number of 'toilet days' and any clues about regional variations. 

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

So, they are the 'responsible ones', and by your own words are no longer using (so called) "composting toilets", so not included in any figures or surveys, this probably means that, of the remaining users, an even higher percentage is now disposing of the waste in an improper manner.

A higher percentage maybe, but a lower absolute number, meaning Biffa staff are now having to deal with less bagged poo in total.

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15 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

Yes, we all know that a composting toilet doesn't compost.

 

 

Really? 

 

Who is "we"? 

 

My own impression is that novices are inclined believe the vernacular description "composting toilet", literally.

 

And are then rather surprised to discover they have to do the composting themselves, away from the toilet, rather than getting lovely compost out of the toilet after a week or two to put on their roses or tomatoes.

 

But some are willing to 'minimalise' this in order to virtue-signal their green credentials.

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The Museum of London Docklands at Canary wharf had a temporary exhibition which was about London sewerage. Quite an enlightening exhibition it was too. 

 

They had a 3 seater loo which was a piece of hardwood with 3 holes carved out. Originally placed shoreside overhanging and for disposal directly into the River. 

 

They even had sound effects. I sat on if with my two children and we were all a little worried we may have left something behind but there was perspex immediately below the holes. 

 

Good loo nice and simple. 

 

There was a boat bog which automatically wrapped up the waste for disposal in bins. I suppose this one is probably also now not allowed.

 

Is one permitted to place the output from human used food explusion systems into the bins used for canine used food expulsion system disposal? 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
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27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Is one permitted to place the output from human used food explusion systems into the bins used for canine used food expulsion system disposal? 

Good luck finding an empty one. All the ones we pass are rammed full, with an assortment of differently coloured bags piled on top and around the base, because people are idiots and can’t carry it to the next empty receptacle or take the bloody things home 😡

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2 hours ago, magnetman said:

The Museum of London Docklands at Canary wharf had a temporary exhibition which was about London sewerage. Quite an enlightening exhibition it was too. 

 

They had a 3 seater loo which was a piece of hardwood with 3 holes carved out. Originally placed shoreside overhanging and for disposal directly into the River. 

 

They even had sound effects. I sat on if with my two children and we were all a little worried we may have left something behind but there was perspex immediately below the holes. 

 

Good loo nice and simple. 

 

There was a boat bog which automatically wrapped up the waste for disposal in bins. I suppose this one is probably also now not allowed.

 

Is one permitted to place the output from human used food explusion systems into the bins used for canine used food expulsion system disposal? 

 

 

I love the 'human used food expulsion system'! HUFES...

 

I have seen a waterless loo that uses a disposal bag with some kind of absorbent gel in. You load up a roll of them, and after each use the loo seals the bag and you end up with a sort of long sausage of your used food. It struck me as rather expensive and wasteful as well as very dependent on the proprietary liner bags. Not sure what you do if you run out...

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55 minutes ago, Kate_MM said:

I have seen a waterless loo that uses a disposal bag with some kind of absorbent gel in. You load up a roll of them, and after each use the loo seals the bag and you end up with a sort of long sausage of your used food. It struck me as rather expensive and wasteful as well as very dependent on the proprietary liner bags. Not sure what you do if you run out...

I have one on the boat for emergency use. Carried a porta potty for 18 years taking up space, this is in a bag and tucked away.

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3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have one on the boat for emergency use. Carried a porta potty for 18 years taking up space, this is in a bag and tucked away.

I think I know the one you mean - a much simpler version designed for camping/festivals/occasional use. The one I saw was an over engineered affair I saw on a Youtube video in an American tiny home. I don't know why I get sucked into watching these things, fascinated by all that tidiness and minimalism that I will never achieve perhaps... 

 

🙂 

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3 hours ago, Kate_MM said:

I think I know the one you mean - a much simpler version designed for camping/festivals/occasional use. The one I saw was an over engineered affair I saw on a Youtube video in an American tiny home. I don't know why I get sucked into watching these things, fascinated by all that tidiness and minimalism that I will never achieve perhaps... 

 

🙂 

Amazon was the first link I found Popaloo - Portable Camping Toilet. : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

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3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have one on the boat for emergency use. Carried a porta potty for 18 years taking up space, this is in a bag and tucked away.

I hesitate to ask, but did you really have a so many 'emergencies' in those 18 years that you felt the need to seek a replacement? My mind is somewhat boggled!

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53 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I hesitate to ask, but did you really have a so many 'emergencies' in those 18 years that you felt the need to seek a replacement? My mind is somewhat boggled!

I had none. that is why the space used by storing a porta potty could be better used. I realise that its always possible to be iced in or not being able to access a pumpout for some reason.

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  • 2 months later...
3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

This link just popped up on Facebook CIrcular Revolution

 

Not quite sure how anyone would / could make an 18 litre cassette last 2 weeks, let alone a month ............................

 

 

We deliver a collection caddy (18l) and paper liner to your boat. Every two weeks, or month, depending on your subscription choice, we collect your full collection caddy and swap it for an empty one. So simple and easy!

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not quite sure how anyone would / could make an 18 litre cassette last 2 weeks, let alone a month ............................

 

 

We deliver a collection caddy (18l) and paper liner to your boat. Every two weeks, or month, depending on your subscription choice, we collect your full collection caddy and swap it for an empty one. So simple and easy!

I think it is a separator toilet waste not a  portapotty so no liquid

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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not quite sure how anyone would / could make an 18 litre cassette last 2 weeks, let alone a month ............................

 

I think the Pack-a-potty is better value than a "caddy" collection.

pack-a-potty.jpg.b22f4e5f10fbf180462522adb8dfc3eb.jpg.dbfbd84dc793777c4096a14c2217fbeb.jpg

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16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not quite sure how anyone would / could make an 18 litre cassette last 2 weeks, let alone a month ............................

 

 

We deliver a collection caddy (18l) and paper liner to your boat. Every two weeks, or month, depending on your subscription choice, we collect your full collection caddy and swap it for an empty one. So simple and easy!

Our 20 litre bucket lasts about 4 weeks before we need to put a new one in. Two of us living aboard. As Brian says, it's the poo and sawdust bit not the wee bit. No liquid involved.

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13 hours ago, Puffling said:

I think the Pack-a-potty is better value than a "caddy" collection.

pack-a-potty.jpg.b22f4e5f10fbf180462522adb8dfc3eb.jpg.dbfbd84dc793777c4096a14c2217fbeb.jpg

Genuinely think if you have some high value items to transport through an area famous for muggings, a backpack that looks (and possibly smells) like a toilet cassette might be the way forward :D 

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  • 7 months later...

think i might have found the solution, only available in America apparently but can only be a matter of time?

 

https://peoplepoweredmachines.com/biodogradablebags/biocompet.htm#

 

"bioCOMpet provides home gardeners with a source of rich, organic fertilizer. There is something uniquely satisfying about witnessing the entire food chain: from garden to table, to garden again.

Two Chamber System

  • Add waste any time to the upper chamber, when full, transfer to the lower chamber and start over again. The lower chamber keeps curing.
  • Internal temperature: 160 degrees F.
  • Produce fresh compost in just 2 weeks. Automatic mixing, heating, air pump, and air filter technology. Can Process up to 5 lbs of food or pet waste per day with a 4 gallon weekly capacity.
  • Can Process up to 5 lbs. of food or pet waste per day with a 4 gallon weekly capacity.
  • Double reinforced, metal motor gears to help grind waste more efficiently and an internal release mechanism for jams.
  • Accepts, meat, fish, dairy, food remains, pet waste and bioDOGradable compostable pet waste bags.

Get Started Immediately

  • Control panel with 3 power settings: High, Medium, and Low.
  • Comes assembled with everything you need to get started with including power supply, baking soda, and 3 pound box of sawdust pellets.
  • Food Guide and Quick Guide to help you learn about the composting process.

Energy-Efficient Construction

  • Made 1mm recycled & recyclable materials stamped with the “5” triangle recycling symbol.
  • Energy efficient.
  • Compatible to run with battery or solar panel."
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1 minute ago, MtB said:

Did you find that on April 1st?! 

the principal seems plausible there are plenty of electric composters out there which  turn kitchen waste to compost in a few hours so a higher temperature to deal with pathogens????

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  • Can Process up to 5 lbs. of food or pet waste per day with a 4 gallon weekly capacity.
  • Accepts, meat, fish, dairy, food remains, pet waste and bioDOGradable compostable pet waste bags.

Does not look like they want human waste in it.

Unless the "food remains" is a euphemism for feces.

 

 

 As for a high temperature to deal with the pathogens I find the fire does this. 

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