Alternative to a widebeam?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

 

Maybe I mean heating the boat really qiuckly because i would like my new heating system to run on a timer so the boat is hot in winter when i arrive

 

 

 

For that, a warm air system is best. The cheapo chinese ones are very good provided you deal with the exhaust safely, which ends up costing a whole load more than the heater itself. 

 

 

[Noviceboata]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

For that, a warm air system is best. The cheapo chinese ones are very good provided you deal with the exhaust safely, which ends up costing a whole load more than the heater itself. 

 

 

Thanks for that, I heard that you have to change some of the parts/exhaust to bring it up to standards for a BSS. 

[Tony Brooks]

55 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

The survey says the engine is a twin 4-cylinder Ford Bowman engine, developing 48hp,

 

I think the Bowman part came from the name on the manifold cum heat exchanger & header tank, never heard of Bowman actually doing marinisations. I think it has probably been changed for the Ford during the life of the boat, but can't be sure. If you are interested in which Ford engine it is making it makes getting spares easier post some photos.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Slow and Steady]

I don't know of anyone who has lived through a winter in a fibre glass boat who hasn't been saving and looking out for for a steel one.

To spend that and then plan to rip out the interior to insulate, and replace the heating system is surely nuts.

You're even planning to keep your bricks and mortar while you do it so why not be a little more patient and look out for a boat that actually ticks the boxes?

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Noviceboata said:

The survey says the engine is a twin 4-cylinder Ford Bowman engine, developing 48hp,

What is a "twin 4 cylinder" engine? A V8 or two

engines? Neither sounds very likely on a 42ft Broads cruiser.

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What is a "twin 4 cylinder" engine? A V8 or two

engines? Neither sounds very likely on a 42ft Broads cruiser.

 

If I am correct about it being built with a transverse engine hydraulic drive then just maybe fitting a Ford V4 would make it short enough to mount it in the normal way with an outdrive (Z drive) or reversed with a remote V drive, but that would impinge on the rear cabin space. I have seen one fitted with an outdrive.  All speculation. Still a very solid hull though.

 

Further thought, I think the Ford V4s were petrol and would require two exhaust manifolds, too complex I would have thought. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

What is a "twin 4 cylinder" engine? A V8 or two

engines? Neither sounds very likely on a 42ft Broads cruiser.

 

 

If the surveyor thinks the engine is a 'Bowman' what else is he confused over ?

 

These people are the experts on marinised Ford engines and hold loads of parts in stock.

 

Flipbook (lancingmarine.com)

 

They do have several alternatives for Ford 4-cylinder diesel engines

 

 

 

[booke23]

@The Happy Nomad might be along shortly to share his experience of hiring a similar craft at the end of March.

 

In short even if you can heat it satisfactorily, draughts and condensation could be a big problem on a boat like this in winter.

[Noviceboata]

1 hour ago, Slow and Steady said:

I don't know of anyone who has lived through a winter in a fibre glass boat who hasn't been saving and looking out for for a steel one.

To spend that and then plan to rip out the interior to insulate, and replace the heating system is surely nuts.

You're even planning to keep your bricks and mortar while you do it so why not be a little more patient and look out for a boat that actually ticks the boxes?

That is a good point and in the back of my mind. it is possible with the recession in the UK that is coming upon us there will be some good deals to be had regarding boats.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

That is a good point and in the back of my mind. it is possible with the recession in the UK that is coming upon us there will be some good deals to be had regarding boats.

 

Or, the recession means less folk can afford 'bricks and mortar' and the demand (and prices) for boats increase even higher.

Boats  are currently being sold without even being viewed. let alone inspected, demand is so high that if a boat has not sold within 48 hours it is either way overpriced, or something seriously wrong with it.

 

I do not see this trend changing any time soon.

[Noviceboata]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Or, the recession means less folk can afford 'bricks and mortar' and the demand (and prices) for boats increase even higher.

 

We could look at it like that. On the other hand if interest rates go through the roof for consumer/other credit,  people might be inclined to let there boats go (Especially the one's that are lying around/under renovation) in order to service their debts.

 

29 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

That is a good point and in the back of my mind. it is possible with the recession in the UK that is coming upon us there will be some good deals to be had regarding boats.

I would just like to add that during my investigations, I have understood that any boat around 20-25k needs to be gutted and fully refitted 

[Noviceboata]

Already getting a hard time on another forum when I mention the prospect of bringing a broads cruiser widebeam into the London canals. Is there some sort of Heirarchy there or something?

[David Mack]

London is "full". And with a widebeam you won't be able to breast up as narrowboats do, so effectively you will be occupying two mooring slots.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, booke23 said:

@The Happy Nomad might be along shortly to share his experience of hiring a similar craft at the end of March.

 

In short even if you can heat it satisfactorily, draughts and condensation could be a big problem on a boat like this in winter.

 

The boat we hired was a centre canopy type, rather than the 'bath tub' type pictured. But yes in the 'winter' weather we got in March/April it was impossible to heat to a satisfactory level, so much so we abandoned our 2 week holiday after just three nights and came home. The biggest issue was the draughts from the centre canopy but even if they hadn't been a problem I suspect the boat would have been not much better to keep warm.

 

We ran the blown air diesel heater system a great deal and caned about sixty quids worth of diesel in the process. God knows how much that would cost now to do the same.

 

These boats are primarily designed for fairish to warm weather cruising (by the yards own admission) - they are generally not well insulated and they are normally single glazed. I wouldn't like to live on one during the winter unless it had a massive upgrade to insulation, glazing and heating.

[Noviceboata]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

London is "full". And with a widebeam you won't be able to breast up as narrowboats do, so effectively you will be occupying two mooring slots.

When I was at the canals on the weekend I heard so many stories i dont know what to beleive , "cant moor GRP boats on the inside of steel boats", "dont moor beside another boat if there is nobody home" "its ok to moor a widebeam beside a narrowboat but not another widebeam"

I would think so long as their is enough room for boats to pass it wouldnt be a problem. I guess thats what the CRT licence is for, to enjoy the canals and not for other boaters to make the rules

 

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

Already getting a hard time on another forum when I mention the prospect of bringing a broads cruiser widebeam into the London canals. Is there some sort of Heirarchy there or something?

Not officially, but my tongue in cheek hierarchy on canals is :

 

1. CRT work boat (they get too moor on lock landings for weeks!)

2. Narrowboat

3. Narrow cruiser

4. Dutch barge

5. Widebeam 'narrowboat' (fatboat)

6. Widebeam cruiser

7. Big orange converted ships lifeboat 

8. Rowing boat

9. Canoe/Kayak

10. Stand up paddle board

 

Seriously though, there are quite a few of those Orange lifeboats in London which some say are a monstrosity.

[Noviceboata]

10 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I wouldn't like to live on one during the winter unless it had a massive upgrade to insulation, glazing and heating.

I agree, and as already mentioned it may not be worth it to spend all that money doing a complete renovation on the said boat

6 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Not officially, but my tongue in cheek hierarchy on canals is :

 

1. CRT work boat (they get too moor on lock landings for weeks!)

2. Narrowboat

3. Narrow cruiser

4. Dutch barge

5. Widebeam 'narrowboat' (fatboat)

6. Widebeam cruiser

7. Big orange converted ships lifeboat 

8. Rowing boat

9. Canoe/Kayak

10. Stand up paddle board

 

Seriously though, there are quite a few of those Orange lifeboats in London which some say are a monstrosity.

Great list! amazing how a Kayak is so far down the list, people cant even go out for a week kayaking on the canals ) At least the boat I want at number 6 is nearly in the top half of the list  Interesting if there is actually a top dog of the London canal system )

Edited June 8, 2022 by Noviceboata

[Noviceboata]

4 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

 

 

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

We could look at it like that. On the other hand if interest rates go through the roof for consumer/other credit,  people might be inclined to let there boats go (Especially the one's that are lying around/under renovation) in order to service their debts.

 

I would just like to add that during my investigations, I have understood that any boat around 20-25k needs to be gutted and fully refitted 

Is this because you are looking in the London area?

I would think the demand for these boats is fairly low, it's been done up for sale imho, which is no bad thing,but to be honest, it looks fine for a summer cruise, but no, I'd be looking for something else as a liveaboard.

 

[Noviceboata]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'd be looking for something else as a liveaboard.

 

Yes, with all the good advice here I am starting to lean that way

[Tony Brooks]

I think that I am fairly conversant with those boats and I certainly think it could be made very cosy, be it with the loss of internal width and headroom. There was loads of room behind the lining and under the side decks, in fact enough to get a horizontal calorifier in there. The cabin sides are different and as far as I can remember they were not lined, so sheet insulation could be stuck to the cabin side and then covered. As already said acrylic or polycarbonate double glazing should be easy to arrange APART from the rather odd window shape but If needs must  think they could be covered with the insulation to make them square/rectangular. Again I come back to the very heavy GRP layup that must be advantageous for boats that age.

 

FWIW, unless it has been altered the conventional stern gland and hydraulic motor, if it has one, are under a trap in the rear cabin floor inside  a very deep "keel" section. I think they used rubber Cutless shaft bearings.

[LadyG]

There are always good boats in anybody's price range.

I met a lad, fresh from the Army, who had bought a lovely glass fibre boat for £700!

Yes it was some sort of fishing boat style, yes it was not something one would expect on an ApolloDuck search, but it was about the same size as this £22k boat but much more style.

£700!!!!!!!

[Noviceboata]

40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There are always good boats in anybody's price range.

I met a lad, fresh from the Army, who had bought a lovely glass fibre boat for £700!

Yes it was some sort of fishing boat style, yes it was not something one would expect on an ApolloDuck search, but it was about the same size as this £22k boat but much more style.

£700!!!!!!!

Yes we all have great stories  If you can find me a 42-44ft broads cruiser for 22k in any condition that is all one level, and 6.2 total headroom all the way through I will be very glad. 

[Noviceboata]

47 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

There was loads of room behind the lining and under the side decks, in fact enough to get a horizontal calorifier in there.

Sure, apart from the 10ft width inside the cabin height at 6.2ft it basically has a 1 foot wide by 3ft high storage compartments along each side of the boat ( except for a few pipes/wiring). this is one of the thinks that attracted me to this boat.

[Mad Harold]

4 hours ago, Noviceboata said:

Thanks for that, I heard that you have to change some of the parts/exhaust to bring it up to standards for a BSS. 

That is true.The heaters themselves are around £100 but it will cost as much again for a good installation. 

A proper insulated exhaust outlet is over £50, although you can use a cheaper one for the combustion air inlet if you want the heater to be "room sealed "Some people don't bother with this and let the heater draw it's combustion air from inside the boat.

The fuel tank needs to vent and be able to ship any refueling spillages overboard.

The fuel pipe needs to be metal, and you can use compression joints, but if not any connecting rubber piping should be fire retardant ISO 7840  (I think that's the right number)

You will also need to budget for more exhaust tubing as what comes with the kit is never long enough.The hose clips that come with it are rubbish too and should be thrown away.