Alternative to a widebeam?

[LadyG]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The canals are not populated solely by nice law abiding folks - it also attracts the dregs of society, and somewhere between the two extremes you will find that someone doesnt like you stealing their pre-arranged mooring spot.

That may or may not be the case, but how would you know, I mean when did you cc in London?

OP is probably a regular guy, does not know much about boating, sees an opportunity to have his own home in London.

He does not realise that he is following a route tried by thousands, and the overcrowding has led to some adverse reaction. Here and in London. If he is threatened by some nutter, he can call 999, big advantage is that boater should be traceable

Edited June 8, 2022 by LadyG

[blackrose]

23 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You are being an ass.  Try that in overcrowded London and see how far you get. Especially with a wide boat that you cannot get past the breasted up pairs already moored.

 

In fact, try it anywhere that is busy on a popular canal, you will find out what is wrong with your attitude.

 

Steady on, there's really no need to start throwing insults around.

 

What Noviceboata doesn't understand is that a lot of CCers in London (and elsewhere) don't follow the rules and overstay so you just can't get onto the visitor moorings. He wasn't being an ass, he just doesn't understand the reality of the situation. 

 

However, plenty of people do CC around London so it is possible, just hard work and perhaps on occasion unpleasant 

[Noviceboata]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think you understand the point Alan made. To be blunt there are boaters who are mentally unstable, permanently drunk, permanently under the influence of drugs, mentally ill or just very nasty people. The CC community seems to attract more than their fair share of those and when I last boated through London a number of years ago they seemed to represent even more of the live aboards. I fear that if you do as you suggests and stand on your "rights" you will get assaulted or worse.

 

The reason I never went back through London was because I did not feel safe on what overnight mooring I could find.

I fully understand what Alan and you mean. I have been to the canals enough times and just the sight of some of the boats scares me! I mean how do they let the boats get in such a state? Cant they just give it a coat of paint? I guess thats why when I mention at work “living on a boat on the canals in London” they pretty much say, “next question please” which leads me to believe that amongst many people, living on a boat in the London canals is sociably unacceptable freeloaders, the things you guys mentioned (not saying everybody)

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

However, plenty of people do CC around London so it is possible, just hard work and perhaps on occasion unpleasant 

Fully agree, I have met some really descent people on the canals

[Noviceboata]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

That may or may not be the case, but how would you know, I mean when did you cc in London?

OP is probably a regular guy, does not know much about boating, sees an opportunity to have his own home in London.

He does not realise that he is following a route tried by thousands, and the overcrowding has led to some adverse reaction. Here and in London. If he is threatened by some nutter, he can call 999, big advantage is that boater should be traceable

Call 999? I would probably be labeled a snitch the first day on the canals. 3 years of walking along the canals and talking to different people has given me a pretty good idea about what is going on

[ditchcrawler]

Someone who has done the footwork and not just watched Youtube Well done Noviceboata.

[David Mack]

44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

No sure about this but I was under the impression some Stort locks had limited width so a 12ft beam may not fit.

13 ft 4 ins , so the locks can't be used by paired narrowboats, but the OP's wide boat would be fine.

[blackrose]

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think you understand the point Alan made. To be blunt there are boaters who are mentally unstable, permanently drunk, permanently under the influence of drugs, mentally ill or just very nasty people. The CC community seems to attract more than their fair share of those and when I last boated through London a number of years ago they seemed to represent even more of the live aboards. I fear that if you do as you suggests and stand on your "rights" you will get assaulted or worse.

 

The reason I never went back through London was because I did not feel safe on what overnight mooring I could find.

 

Last time I cruised through London was about twelve years ago and it wasn't that bad. I even found a nice mooring for a week in Paddington basin and one morning went for a cheap breakfast at Subway as it was just outside.  

 

But I'm sure things have got worse since then. The only place I felt unsafe was in East London. At Kings Cross a couple of people with permanent moorings that I got talking to  told me not to moor between there and Victoria Park. At one point police divers were in the canal and their colleagues on the towpath waved me over to the other side to avoid the divers. When I asked them what they were looking for they replied "A body".  I didn't stop until I got to Limehouse basin.

 

 

[GUMPY]

Bodies can pop up between the East end of Islington Tunnel and the lock. Two friends of mine both had bodies under their boats one on the offside, when you could moor there and one on the moorings. 😯

[Noviceboata]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Last time I cruised through London was about twelve years ago and it wasn't that bad. I even found a nice mooring for a week in Paddington basin and one morning went for a cheap breakfast at Subway as it was just outside.  

 

But I'm sure things have got worse since then. The only place I felt unsafe was in East London. At Kings Cross a couple of people with permanent moorings that I got talking to  told me not to moor between there and Victoria Park. At one point police divers were in the canal and their colleagues on the towpath waved me over to the other side to avoid the divers. When I asked them what they were looking for they replied "A body".  I didn't stop until I got to Limehouse basin.

 

 

When I asked them what they were looking for they replied "A body".  I didn't stop until I got to Limehouse basin. 

 

Wow! yea, and I bet the crime has quad quaddrupled in that time.  BTW, nice widebeam, do you still have it?

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Someone who has done the footwork and not just watched Youtube Well done Noviceboata.

Thanks! as they say, face to face conversation is always the best!

[Tony Brooks]

FWIW it was the Victoria Park area I found most intimidating. Especially a number of long term moorers on the service point there.

[blackrose]

26 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

 

Wow! yea, and I bet the crime has quad quaddrupled in that time.  BTW, nice widebeam, do you still have it?

 

 

Yes, I've been living on it for 17 years.

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

FWIW it was the Victoria Park area I found most intimidating. Especially a number of long term moorers on the service point there.

 

Yes, I didn't fancy mooring there either - just kept going.... I know it's fashionable now but I hate East London. My family got out of the East End as soon as they were able.

[blackrose]

31 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Bodies can pop up between the East end of Islington Tunnel and the lock. Two friends of mine both had bodies under their boats one on the offside, when you could moor there and one on the moorings. 😯

 

We had a floater come past while I was moored in Brentford basin about 15 years ago. I don't think there was anything suspicious, just someone who'd fallen in drunk and drowned a day or two before. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

That may or may not be the case, but how would you know, I mean when did you cc in London?

 

I've had a boat on the Thames and cruised into and thru London - how far have you actually moved you boat in the last couple of years - have you actually ever got out of Yorkshire ?

[LadyG]

Theres a seamaster on eBay for £9K, a bit small, but it's been a London cc liveaboard

[Noviceboata]

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Theres a seamaster on eBay for £9K, a bit small, but it's been a London cc liveaboard

Thanks for sharing this. Yea I agree, this would be good as as starter boat for some people but im after something I can eventually turn into a luxury floating 1 bed apartment and with the broads cruiser Its definitely possible

[MtB]

9 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I seem to be in a minority here but apart from the insulation and possible drive line I think it could make a lovely live aboard.

 

Well yes, but I'd put it the other way around. Due to the difficulties of insulating it, I don't think it would make a lovely liveaboard. 

 

Yes maybe with a tonne of work stripping all the interior fittings and then the panelling, adding insulation then putting it all of it back again, it could be insulated. Then same with the roof panelling and under the floors, but the windows! Acres of odd shaped single glaze, a nightmare to double glaze or otherwise insulate effectively. As someone else suggested mucking about with DIY acrylic secondary glazing might be just about viable but hardly makes it inot the 'luxury pad' the OP writes about and seems to have in mind. Just bodgery really. 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Noviceboata said:

Thanks for sharing this. Yea I agree, this would be good as as starter boat for some people but im after something I can eventually turn into a luxury floating 1 bed apartment and with the broads cruiser Its definitely possible

Doing up boats is a bit of a nightmare, glass fibre production boats may be even more tricky than narrowboats, as once you start removing the original lining, it may not go back!

Personally I'd go for the simplest and live frugally for two years then buy something significantly better, having saved hard. It will give you the  experience, decide whether you can cope,  and you can do a bit of tarting up, insulating curtains for one!

I think there is an expression " you can't turn a sows ear in to a silk purse ". The boat lacks style, imho.

You may say " beauty is in the eye of the beholder "

something like NaughtyCal has more going for it.

Edited June 9, 2022 by LadyG

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Well yes, but I'd put it the other way around. Due to the difficulties of insulating it, I don't think it would make a lovely liveaboard. 

 

Yes maybe with a tonne of work stripping all the interior fittings and then the panelling, adding insulation then putting it all of it back again, it could be insulated. Then same with the roof panelling and under the floors, but the windows! Acres of odd shaped single glaze, a nightmare to double glaze or otherwise insulate effectively. As someone else suggested mucking about with DIY acrylic secondary glazing might be just about viable but hardly makes it inot the 'luxury pad' the OP writes about and seems to have in mind. Just bodgery really. 

 

I agree, starting with a £22k boat it:s

 never going to be luxury, but they're not that difficult to insulate. As long as you're not living aboard when you're actually doing the work. The panelling shouldn't be that difficult to remove. I'd do one side or area at a time and insulate it with foil or vapour barrier faced rockwool. How many boats are insulated under the floor? 

 

I don't see why the acrylic double glazing would have to be a bodge. If you did it well you wouldn't even notice it. There are some old threads in the archives on exactly how people have done it with narrowboat bus windows. It's not going to be that different. 

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

You may say " beauty is in the eye of the beholder "

something like NaughtyCal has more going for it.

 

That is definitely a mater of opinion.  You may like the boy racer styling of modern production craft, but I do not. I very much prefer function over form and the OP wants a one level boat with internal space for long term living. I doubt Naughty Cal  and the like comes close to his requirements.

 

As I said, I don't think the cabin sides are lined, or if they are it is just glued on "Fablon" material. Some had a sprayed on textured and flecked paint. The  plastic film will be destroyed in the remove so he can batten to take insulation and a new lining. I also think much of the cupboards etc. may well be standard 500 mm units so may well just pull out after a few fixings have been removed, but he needs to check all this.

 

I do not think you have the experience and knowledge of such boats to comment on any basis other than your personal taste.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[blackrose]

I also get the feeling that Naughty Call would have set its owners back a lot more than £22K when it was purchased. You're comparing an old beaten up van with a modern sports car. 

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

How many boats are insulated under the floor? 

 

No idea how you would do that on one of those. All the Wildes boats I saw had the floor glassed in with GRP all over it. That is apart from a small area  above the keel in the rear cabin. In one case we got a new one where the floor appeared to have been glassed in without ensuring the bilge area was dry. We drilled a hole in the floor and pumped many gallons of water out.

 

As GRP is flammable and the cabin sides are essentially flat I think I would use sheets of flame retardant expanded polystyrene because it is cheaper than Kingspan type materials.

[Slow and Steady]

10 hours ago, Noviceboata said:

Thanks for sharing this. Yea I agree, this would be good as as starter boat for some people but im after something I can eventually turn into a luxury floating 1 bed apartment and with the broads cruiser Its definitely possible

I've been looking at prices and I think you have found a pretty good one for the money and your vision but it won't be easy while CCing around London. Hate to say it but as others have advised, it's a wide boat for that lifestyle. I imagine the easiest way to live like that, apart from being cramped into a cupboard, are the 30ft narrowboats. It's a balance of luxury v practicality. I look forward to hearing how you get on because people who actually live like this in London seem to paint a far rosier picture re community than those looking from the canal side.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would use sheets of flame retardant expanded polystyrene

 

As long as no PVC cables are in direct contact with it.

Alternatives : Use special 'non-migratory PVC' insulated cables or, sleeve all cables in NYLON or POLYETHYLENE conduit / tubing.

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As long as no PVC cables are in direct contact with it.

Alternatives : Use special 'non-migratory PVC' insulated cables or, sleeve all cables in NYLON or POLYETHYLENE conduit / tubing.

I think the reaction of PVC and polystyrene causing problems is an canal-side myth.

Seen hundreds of places where they have been in contact for decades without any degradation of the PVC, just the polystyrene erroded.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I also get the feeling that Naughty Call would have set its owners back a lot more than £22K when it was purchased. You're comparing an old beaten up van with a modern sports car. 

I mentioned style because OP wants to end up with something which looks luxurious.