Recommendations for installing Inverter, servicing engine and gas system on the boat (London)

[reg]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

For the first (roughly) 20 years of my life we didn't have a fridge, we had a stone slab in the pantry with  very fine steel mesh instead of a window.

 

Managing 4 Winter months without a fridge is simple, just use a bucket of water to keep the milk cool, and tuck the other stuff in a box in the cratch.

I believe there may be a case for the reintroduction of the pantry into new build housing. Got eliminated when cheap power was plentiful.

Effectively, as outlined on my previous post, I  turn part of my bedroom into a pantry in winter.

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

For the first (roughly) 20 years of my life we didn't have a fridge, we had a stone slab in the pantry with  very fine steel mesh instead of a window.

 

Managing 4 Winter months without a fridge is simple, just use a bucket of water to keep the milk cool, and tuck the other stuff in a box in the cratch.

I believe there may be a case for the reintroduction of the pantry into new build housing. Got eliminated when cheap power was plentiful.

Effectively, as outlined on my previous post, I  turn part of my bedroom into a pantry in winter.

 

EDIT

Looks like I'm late to the party 

https://www.hertsad.co.uk/lifestyle/property/exploring-pantry-porn-5185190.

Certainly not a bad idea to have a pantry area, either officially designated or not , on a boat.

Edited June 1, 2022 by reg
Additional info

[cheesegas]

42 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

How do you copewith the 4+ months without a fridge?

Terracotta pot on the front deck keeps food mostly cool, but once the weather starts to warm up stuff doesn’t keep long. I rarely eat meat and dairy which helps too. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Noviceboata said:

How do you copewith the 4+ months without a fridge?

 

 

I never needed to 'cope' without a fridge when I live aboard. I turn the fridge ON and it works. Easy. 

 

Maybe it wouldn't if I never cruised anywhere tho....

 

 

[Ewan123]

I didn't check all the replies so apologies if it's a repetition - the Facebook group 'TIMEA Public to Engineer Forum' has a list of reputable/vetted engineers, most of which cover London. 

[cuthound]

On 01/06/2022 at 17:22, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you can touch both of them, at the same time with two very long screwdrivers with 'full out-stretched arms' they are too close.

 

Same goes for anything fed from them such as sockets and the equipment plugged into the sockets.

 

The two 230 volt waveforms are not in synchronisation and thus 400 volts can appear across the two systems, so as you say it is good practice to ensure that you cannot touch anything connected to either system at the same time by physically separating them.

 

[GUMPY]

51 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Same goes for anything fed from them such as sockets and the equipment plugged into the sockets.

 

The two 230 volt waveforms are not in synchronisation and thus 400 volts can appear across the two systems, so as you say it is good practice to ensure that you cannot touch anything connected to either system at the same time by physically separating them.

 

It's one of those "urban myths" that you can't have different phases with reach of each other - like all good myths there's is a grain of truth behind it - many years ago (back in the days of the 14th Edition which was 1970 iirc) there was a requirement that all sockets in the same room had to be on the same phase - but that requirement has long since been dropped as it made little sense with modern systems. Even the requirement to have to label things as 415V (400V now) where two different phases were within reach didn't survive past the 16th Edition.

For some strange reason it's the kind of regulation that seems to survive in the collective memory even a generation or two after it disappeared from the actual regulations.

To be any more dangerous than one phase you would need two faults at the same time which is highly unlikely to happen.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Loddon

[cuthound]

Just now, Loddon said:

It's one of those "urban myths" that you can't have different phases with reach of each other - like all good myths there's is a grain of truth behind it - many years ago (back in the days of the 14th Edition which was 1970 iirc) there was a requirement that all sockets in the same room had to be on the same phase (A.20) - but that requirement has long since been dropped as it made little sense with modern systems. Even the requirement to have to label things as 415V (400V now) where two different phases were within reach didn't survive past the 16th Edition.

For some strange reason it's the kind of regulation that seems to survive in the collective memory even a generation or two after it disappeared from the actual regulations.

To be any more dangerous than one phase you would need two faults at the same time which is highly unlikely to happen.

 

I agree that it is no longer part of the wiring regs, but a couple of seconds with a multimeter will show there is 400 volts between phases and that is more likely to deliver a fatal shock than 230 volts.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Even the requirement to have to label things as 415V (400V now)

 

 

My fuse box is labelled 415v

[GUMPY]

45 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I agree that it is no longer part of the wiring regs, but a couple of seconds with a multimeter will show there is 400 volts between phases and that is more likely to deliver a fatal shock than 230 volts.

Only if there is a double fault as a single fault can only give 230v 

[cuthound]

Just now, Loddon said:

Only if there is a double fault as a single fault can only give 230v 

 

I agree a single fault can only five 230 volts, but you are ignoring the possibility of touching exposed conductors. It needn't be caused by a fault. 

 

Rare I agree, but my point remains that a 400 volt shock is more likely to be lethal than a 230 volt one.

[GUMPY]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I agree a single fault can only five 230 volts, but you are ignoring the possibility of touching exposed conductors. It needn't be caused by a fault. 

 

Rare I agree, but my point remains that a 400 volt shock is more likely to be lethal than a 230 volt one.

Of course I am ignoring exposed conductors, there should NEVER  be power on exposed conductors.

If two sets are accidently exposed and live then its a double fault!

I had a 415 shock some 47 years ago it was very unpleasant and taught me always to lock off distribution boards even when I believed I was the only person on  site.

 

[cuthound]

Just now, Loddon said:

Of course I am ignoring exposed conductors, there should NEVER  be power on exposed conductors.

If two sets are accidently exposed and live then its a double fault!

I had a 415 shock some 47 years ago it was very unpleasant and taught me always to lock off distribution boards even when I believed I was the only person on  site.

 

 

Don't forget 400 volt systems are usually only found in commercial premises, which are subject to mandatory inspection every 5 years.

 

Domestic systems are not subject to such inspections and therefore exposed conductors due to damaged covers or insulation are much more likely.

 

Despite working on voltages from 24 volts DC to 11,000 volts AC when I was on the tools, sometimes live, I never managed to get a shock.

[GUMPY]

17 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Despite working on voltages from 24 volts DC to 11,000 volts AC when I was on the tools, sometimes live, I never managed to get a shock.

I was pulling cable through trunking everything was switched off but as I was the only person and in I hadn't locked the DB off.

Someone else came in and switched it on despite there being a notice on it.

There were decomposed three phase cables in the trunking (that I was replacing) still connected and my forearm was in the trunking.

As I said most unpleasant.

 

[cuthound]

42 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I was pulling cable through trunking everything was switched off but as I was the only person and in I hadn't locked the DB off.

Someone else came in and switched it on despite there being a notice on it.

There were decomposed three phase cables in the trunking (that I was replacing) still connected and my forearm was in the trunking.

As I said most unpleasant.

 

 

Nasty. I'll bet you never forgot to lock the DB off and keep the key in your pocket after that.

 

Worst shock I ever saw was a guy who mistook an old 50 volt DC PILC (paper insulated lead covered) cable that had been painted black for a PVC insulated cable. He forgot to isolate the batteries (2 X 5000Ah) and used a socket and ratchet to undo the nut on the busbar, rather than insulated tools.

 

He had wedding and engagement rings on and one scratched the paint of the earthed lead sheath of the PILC cable, and made a circuit from battery to earth via the ratchet and his rings. Result was two fingers burnt to the bone and serious burns across the palms of his hands. Poor sod needed skin grafts.

 

Even though it was only 50 volts the batteries provided enough energy to vapourise his rings and partially melt the ratchet.

Edited June 3, 2022 by cuthound
Clarification

[ditchcrawler]

On 30/05/2022 at 12:39, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

You do know that a 4kw inverter is going to draw 400 amps from you batteries - your 6 x 100Ah batteries will be 'flat' in an hour, and take about 24 hours of continuous engine running time to recharge - all for one hour usage.

 

If you don't want to listen to the folks that know, then I'll wish you Adieu and good luck

Only if its fully loaded all the time. If its only feeding his lap to it wont.

On 03/06/2022 at 18:53, cuthound said:

 

Don't forget 400 volt systems are usually only found in commercial premises, which are subject to mandatory inspection every 5 years.

 

Domestic systems are not subject to such inspections and therefore exposed conductors due to damaged covers or insulation are much more likely.

 

Despite working on voltages from 24 volts DC to 11,000 volts AC when I was on the tools, sometimes live, I never managed to get a shock.

That is why I always wince when someone tells me they are installing two Invertors, one on 24/7 and a big one for running large loads which would be running out of phase with each other at some point