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Lost hydraulic drive


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11 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I am sure the engine drive plate is Aluminum. A decent welder should be able to weld the broken off parts back on  if you can find them all. It looks like you could build up the thickness of the original tangs while not affecting its operation. Then all you need is a new rubber coupling. Or as a temp fix you may find an HRC rubber insert of about the right size.

I found the parts, but they are all very worn and deformed:

PXL_20220605_094815906_MP.jpg.ff70a9057ace858845eeb00626994af2.jpg

I'm no expert on welding, but I don't think they could be reused without a fair bit of work on them. Hadn't considered this option though. 

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Have you managed to find a replacement for the, I'm guessing, rubber center part.  If so I'd take ut to a decent engineer, I see no reason why they couldn't weld on new lugs / pegs or what ever  you want to call them...

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8 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

Have you managed to find a replacement for the, I'm guessing, rubber center part.  If so I'd take ut to a decent engineer, I see no reason why they couldn't weld on new lugs / pegs or what ever  you want to call them...

I've not looked as I thought I'd most likely end up having to replace all of it. Maybe I should ask about welding first. 

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On 05/06/2022 at 11:47, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Well, at least you now know the manufacturers name - I wouldn't be surprised if there was a model / part number cast into it somewhere.

 

TSOHAN - Japanese ? Chinese ?

 

 

 

Screenshot (1277).png

 

TSCHAN perhaps?

https://e-rubber.eu/product-category/couplings/tschan/tschan-s/

https://www.ringfeder.com/tschan?

 

Is this a part number on the other part?

image.png.0913d743cd3800dfc147e0e34b76436c.png

Edited by alias
  • Greenie 1
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Assuming the original part is unavailable.........I still think fabricating a steel replacement drive plate will be the cheapest option.............to rebuild the ally plate would be impractical,and I think any welder will tell you so.

Edited by john.k
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12 hours ago, alias said:

Is this a part number on the other part?

I think it's the year of manufacture, 03/1963 

I can get accurate measurements of it though, so finding a new rubber part should still be possible. They seem to come in all sizes. 

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14 hours ago, buccaneer66 said:

Before going to the expense of aluminium welding I'm check if you can just get the rubber bit first.

At The same time I would try and find a welder who would attempt the job and a ballpark cost. 

No consolation to you but this is by far the most interesting topic in ages. Good luck.

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  • I've contacted a few fabricators about creating a new part (I might go with a steel part instead of aluminium). This seems like the easiest, and then I'd order something like this https://e-rubber.eu/product/s-145-coupling/ to replace the rubber. Sadly T. Norris were unable to help.
  • I'm still looking for local aluminium welders, but fear that the amount of new bit we'd need will put most off. I'd again need the rubber part. 
  • I'm waiting to hear back from R&D about their damper drive plates. This might still be the cheapest easiest option if they actually make a 13T version (which I can't see on their datasheets http://www.randdmarine.com/downloads/RandD_Damper.pdf

 

2 hours ago, Slim said:

No consolation to you but this is by far the most interesting topic in ages. Good luck.

Thanks! I'm glad it's interesting too. These forums are such a great resource for folk like myself, and hopefully this post might prove useful for the next boater who looses an old coupling! 

Edited by spicemouse
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1 hour ago, spicemouse said:

I'm still looking for local aluminium welders, but fear that the amount of new bit we'd need will put most off.

Where abouts in the UK are you located? I take it you'd prefer to be able to go in and talk to the engineers as opposed just post it off to one and try and explain it by phone?

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1 hour ago, spicemouse said:

 

Try ringing them, I spoke to someone and they were most helpfull

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1 hour ago, spicemouse said:

Has anyone tried spline adaptors? 

I think an R and D plate will be fine. I doubt if they have one to fit your pump on the shelf but they may be able to make one. They are usually designed for marine gearboxes all of which tend to have different splines. A spine adapter will work fine if you can get one to suit your pump and one of the standard drive plates from R and D. I doubt this but you might fit something like a borg warner or something that uses an SAE standard spline. You need to trawl through all the data sets and work out what size SAE drive plate your engine can take and if it has an SAE standard flywheel. The SAE drive plate may be bigger than your current one. Goggle SAE flywheel and that will give you the data such as diameter and number of bolts for the drive plate. If you find one that fits the flywheel with a larger spline try and get a spline adapter to suit or you could possibly bore out the r and D spline and weld/press in a plane spline sleeve to suit your pump.

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E-Rubber have been spamming me with couplings ....Im sure one would be usable............ however , all this stuff costs much money,and I 'd go with as much of what you already have as possible.............must say some of the e-rubber ones do look impressive ,but more suited to oligarchs cruisers.

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17 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

Weekend update: 

 

I'm going to try and go for a R&D damper plate. It's about 25mm, so I need 20mm of spacing. Thinking I'll use these tube spacers, sound okay?

 

As long as you check the run-out of the damper plate with a DTI and ensure it is as close to zero as you can get it. I also have some concern over the small contact area between plate and spacer and space and plate. Little friction to help transmit and drive and no dowel pins, if your coupling ever had any.  I would hope the drive plate could accommodate a little run out but if this is exceeded then expect excess wear.

 

Maybe look into getting dowel bolts rather than ordinary bolts or set screws.

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If you use tube spacers, buy the best cap head high tensile bolts that you can get. Its not the best way, extending two and a half times the bolt diameter is poor engineering wise.

Can R&D not provide you with a proper spacer ring, a much better way of doing it?

  • Greenie 1
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I do not expect the service life of tube spacers, or  the bolts through them will be very long in canal use.

 

Every time you engage drive ( because of the  inertia of the prop and shaft)   and every time you get a bladeful there will be  significant shear and bending loads on the end of the bolts which will eventually probably fail at  the end of the thread, or bend.  Hex socket Cap head HT bolts will help, but will still fail.

 

Better to get a proper ring spacer made up to the exact thickness you need and  which can be bolted up tight on  both sides so that the load is transferred by friction, not by bending the bolts.

 

 

 

N

 

Edited by BEngo
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PLOT TWIST:

 

This is an extremely unexpected update. I'd previously sent away the old parts and was speaking to people about spacers. Today I was tidying up my backroom and storage space, and came across something most unexpected: 

PXL_20220619_142216082.jpg.5e03f7fdbf963ed0598bc6930b43fe64.jpg

PXL_20220619_142227776.jpg.b4e581a43e4e04a82b190f0fe237af0b.jpg

 

It looks like a previous owner maybe knew the old coupling was going, as they bought an almost identical TSCHAN damper coupling like the one I took off! It's a five lug one, rather than my old 6 lug but the spline is the same. It also comes with a flywheel plate so the number of lugs shouldn't be an issue. 

You cannot imagine how surprised I was finding this! I must have looked at it after I bought the boat but I'd have no idea what I would have been looking at. 

Anyway, I tried to remove the old flywheel plate but it couldn't fit out the housing. Tried to prop up the engine and remove the casing, but it's stuck and I can't see how to get going. 

PXL_20220619_180437260.jpg.654caadc0a4933f3500398fa5084eddc.jpg

 

I'll try get someone more experience over this coming week to get it off and then fit the new/old/surprise coupling. 

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33 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

PLOT TWIST:

 

This is an extremely unexpected update. I'd previously sent away the old parts and was speaking to people about spacers. Today I was tidying up my backroom and storage space, and came across something most unexpected: 

PXL_20220619_142216082.jpg.5e03f7fdbf963ed0598bc6930b43fe64.jpg

PXL_20220619_142227776.jpg.b4e581a43e4e04a82b190f0fe237af0b.jpg

 

It looks like a previous owner maybe knew the old coupling was going, as they bought an almost identical TSCHAN damper coupling like the one I took off! It's a five lug one, rather than my old 6 lug but the spline is the same. It also comes with a flywheel plate so the number of lugs shouldn't be an issue. 

You cannot imagine how surprised I was finding this! I must have looked at it after I bought the boat but I'd have no idea what I would have been looking at. 

Anyway, I tried to remove the old flywheel plate but it couldn't fit out the housing. Tried to prop up the engine and remove the casing, but it's stuck and I can't see how to get going. 

PXL_20220619_180437260.jpg.654caadc0a4933f3500398fa5084eddc.jpg

 

I'll try get someone more experience over this coming week to get it off and then fit the new/old/surprise coupling. 

Are there more bolts underneath? All the bolts out of the ends in the angle irons? You may have to spread the irons a bit.  Good find, What!

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43 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

PLOT TWIST:

 

This is an extremely unexpected update. I'd previously sent away the old parts and was speaking to people about spacers. Today I was tidying up my backroom and storage space, and came across something most unexpected: 

PXL_20220619_142216082.jpg.5e03f7fdbf963ed0598bc6930b43fe64.jpg

PXL_20220619_142227776.jpg.b4e581a43e4e04a82b190f0fe237af0b.jpg

 

It looks like a previous owner maybe knew the old coupling was going, as they bought an almost identical TSCHAN damper coupling like the one I took off! It's a five lug one, rather than my old 6 lug but the spline is the same. It also comes with a flywheel plate so the number of lugs shouldn't be an issue. 

You cannot imagine how surprised I was finding this! I must have looked at it after I bought the boat but I'd have no idea what I would have been looking at. 

Anyway, I tried to remove the old flywheel plate but it couldn't fit out the housing. Tried to prop up the engine and remove the casing, but it's stuck and I can't see how to get going. 

PXL_20220619_180437260.jpg.654caadc0a4933f3500398fa5084eddc.jpg

 

I'll try get someone more experience over this coming week to get it off and then fit the new/old/surprise coupling. 

I can't understand how it can be a 5 lug coupling, surely it has to be an even number, 4 or 6?

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