Anchor/rope/chain etc. for Tidal Thames

[LadyG]

19 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have fond a case of a Narrowboat deploying an anchor, I don't know if it worked.

 

31st May 2022

New Lifeboat Helm’s first service in command brings 2 men and a dog to safety

Broken down canal boat aground in the River Douglas

Lytham St Annes Lifeboat Station’s latest Volunteer Inshore Lifeboat (ILB) Helm completed a tricky job in his first service in command. Will Bridge qualified as a Helm (the Volunteer crew member in command of the ILB), at the end of April 2022 after dedicated and rigorous training. His first service in charge of the ILB occurred on Tuesday 31st May 2022 when a 42 foot (12.8m) canal narrow boat broke down and as a result ran aground in the River Douglas.

The Lifeboat Volunteers were paged at 1:22pm and the ILB set off in a choppy sea to find the casualty which had been reported as aground at the Millennium Link canal which joins the Ribble to the Lancaster Canal. Will’s crew in the ILB were Nigel Browning, Elizabeth Gee and Clive Holland.

With no sign of the canal boat at the Millennium Link, further information came in from Preston Dock that the vessel had left there to head toward the Leeds-Liverpool canal which joins the River Douglas at Tarleton. Using his expertise and local knowledge, Will decided the logical place to find the canal boat was therefore in the River Douglas and this proved to be the case. The boat was found with an anchor out over her stern and her bow aground, fighting the fast ebb tide then surging down the Douglas.

In the difficult conditions, the Helm took the ILB MOAM alongside and transferred Lifeboat Crew Clive Holland across to assist the vessels two occupants. The ILB was then moved to the bow of the casualty to attach a line. This allowed the boat’s bow to be pulled into the channel and afloat. Once this had been achieved the anchor was recovered and the ILB took up the tow, upriver against the ebb tide, to the Douglas Boatyard at Hesketh Bank.

After safely mooring the casualty and ensuring her crew were now OK, the ILB took back Crewmember Clive before heading home to Lytham to be recovered by the Shore Crew shortly after 4pm. She was then returned to her boathouse to be checked, washed and refuelled.

A spokesman said, “It was an excellent service by Will in his first time in command of the ILB on a rescue. All his time, hard work and dedication to achieve this position has paid off and the Station now has yet another excellent Volunteer Helm.”.

 

 

 

I  am of the generation that considers the casualty to be to persons, not the boat, but hey ho. I would call 999 in case of emergency,,, not saying about this instance, but going aground is not always threat to life

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[Mad Harold]

12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Show me yours and I'll show you mine!

 

Let us know where and when this show is taking place.

We could sell tickets to come and watch. (All proceeds to worthy causes)

😜😄

 

[LadyG]

45 minutes ago, howardang said:

That's very debatable. 

 

Howard

I'm seventy five years old.

I'm allowed to make outrageous statements.

When I started sailing marinas were a novelty, and prone to failure when winter weather kicked in,

Boats were hauled out from October to March, kept on moorings for summer.

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[Mad Harold]

Looking to buy a little boat that to get it to my mooring involves a shortish trip along the Trent from West Stockwith to Keadby.

Reading these posts about anchoring I was getting the collywobbles thinking of what could go wrong.(Never been on a tidal river,an unproven boat, and anyway is not equipped with an anchor)

Decided if I buy this boat, it's coming to my mooring by road.

Thanks to everyone for helping me to decide.

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Looking to buy a little boat that to get it to my mooring involves a shortish trip along the Trent from West Stockwith to Keadby.

Reading these posts about anchoring I was getting the collywobbles thinking of what could go wrong.(Never been on a tidal river,an unproven boat, and anyway is not equipped with an anchor)

Decided if I buy this boat, it's coming to my mooring by road.

Thanks to everyone for helping me to decide.

I don't think you need to take everything on the forum as gospel. Its probably perfectly safe, and , indeed enjoyable, if you are a novice, pay someone to take you, you'll learn a lot, which will make the experience worthwhile.

[ditchcrawler]

31 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I  am of the generation that considers the casualty to be to persons, not the boat, but hey ho. I would call 999 in case of emergency,,, not saying about this instance, but going aground is not always threat to life

The Gt Yarmouth Lifeboat probably has more shouts for Breydon Water than for the sea thought the summer months.

[LadyG]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The Gt Yarmouth Lifeboat probably has more shouts for Breydon Water than for the sea thought the summer months.

Exactly.

I  called 101 from my narrowboat when some nutter boater threatened me at 06.00, response was immediate. Had I felt in threat of life I would use 999.

It's a matter of panic sometimes, I've heard people asking for Coastguard because the engine has stopped on a sailboat..

,Well for some people that would be an emergency. For others it's just a regular problem.

People can be so inexperienced they have no option but to ask for assistance, and they don't know any other method.

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[haggis]

I have just been reading the latest Waterways World and there is a very interesting article by Dee Caffari (several times round the World solo sailor)  after she had a trip on a narrowboat. She says " experience is everything - but it needs to be the right experience to be relevant" . I think this is very true and while I don't doubt Lady Gs extensive experience of using anchors at sea, I wonder how often she has actually deployed one from her narrow boat. 

Sometimes it is better to sit back and let those with relevant experience answer questions from new canal boaters 🙂

 

It was an interesting article by Dee and well worth the read. 

 

haggis

[LadyG]

23 minutes ago, haggis said:

I have just been reading the latest Waterways World and there is a very interesting article by Dee Caffari (several times round the World solo sailor)  after she had a trip on a narrowboat. She says " experience is everything - but it needs to be the right experience to be relevant" . I think this is very true and while I don't doubt Lady Gs extensive experience of using anchors at sea, I wonder how often she has actually deployed one from her narrow boat. 

Sometimes it is better to sit back and let those with relevant experience answer questions from new canal boaters 🙂

 

It was an interesting article by Dee and well worth the read. 

 

haggis

I've never deployed one on a narrowboat and never intend to, I was challenged to prove my anchoring experience, so I responded.

I am not suggesting people need spend £500 on ground tackle, and training themselves plus crew who have come out for an afternoon trip on a narrowboat on a summer afternoon.. That's a bit like saying every passenger on the Isle of Wight ferry needs to wear a lifejacket and have a safety training certificate.

PS there are very few with relevant experience, and who is to say the experience was perfect?

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[IanD]

So which one of the Guardian anchors (slightly cheaper version of the Fortress) would be appropriate for a typical narrowboat?

 

https://fortressanchors.com/anchors/guardian/

https://www.proboat.co.uk/item/9/296/176/Guardian-Aluminium-Anchors

 

My guess would be the FT-G37, since this is intended to replace 15-23kg steel anchors (presumably including Danforth) -- note that for this they recommend 2-4m of 9mm chain, 16mm nylon rope (5x water depth) and a 10mm shackle.

 

£540 is certainly not cheap compared to £132 for a 20kg steel Danforth, but then the Guardian only weighs 8kg (much easier to deploy) and has much better holding power...

[LadyG]

30 minutes ago, haggis said:

I have just been reading the latest Waterways World and there is a very interesting article by Dee Caffari (several times round the World solo sailor)  after she had a trip on a narrowboat. She says " experience is everything - but it needs to be the right experience to be relevant" . I think this is very true and while I don't doubt Lady Gs extensive experience of using anchors at sea, I wonder how often she has actually deployed one from her narrow boat. 

Sometimes it is better to sit back and let those with relevant experience answer questions from new canal boaters 🙂

 

It was an interesting article by Dee and well worth the read. 

 

haggis

I don't ever expect to deploy an anchor from my boat.

I am not round the world type sailor, though I did have blue water boat, but just used it for cruising locally. Though I thought about going further.

I have used an anchor numerous times, very few RTW racers ever anchor!

Regardless of the talents of any round the world sailor, if I am on an inland waterway, on my boat, I would make the decisions.

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[haggis]

31 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've never deployed one on a narrowboat and never intend to, I was challenged to prove my anchoring experience, so I responded.

 

I think you were challenged to prove your anchoring experience because you had had a lot to say on the subject and who ever asked you the question was concerned that a new boater asking the initial question was being given information relative to another form of boating. 

As Dee says, it is all about having the right experience 🙂 . She wasn't talking about anchoring specifically but just about boat handling. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by haggis

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

 She says " experience is everything - but it needs to be the right experience to be relevant" . I think this is very true and while I don't doubt Lady Gs extensive experience of using anchors at sea, I wonder how often she has actually deployed one from her narrow boat. 

  

I bet there are not many others here who have. I used a mud weight on the Nene while we had dinner and that held a treat.

 

Interestingly I have never seen a holiday cruiser crossing Breydon Water carrying an anchor 

Edited June 7, 2022 by ditchcrawler
Spilling

[LadyG]

44 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think you were challenged to prove your anchoring experience because you had had a lot to say on the subject and who ever asked you the question was concerned that a new boater asking the initial question was being given information relative to another form of boating. 

As Dee says, it is all about having the right experience 🙂 . She wasn't talking about anchoring specifically but just about boat handling. 

There are RYA boat handling courses.

I

Edited June 7, 2022 by LadyG

[gatekrash]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

So which one of the Guardian anchors (slightly cheaper version of the Fortress) would be appropriate for a typical narrowboat?

 

https://fortressanchors.com/anchors/guardian/

https://www.proboat.co.uk/item/9/296/176/Guardian-Aluminium-Anchors

 

My guess would be the FT-G37, since this is intended to replace 15-23kg steel anchors (presumably including Danforth) -- note that for this they recommend 2-4m of 9mm chain, 16mm nylon rope (5x water depth) and a 10mm shackle.

 

£540 is certainly not cheap compared to £132 for a 20kg steel Danforth, but then the Guardian only weighs 8kg (much easier to deploy) and has much better holding power...

I've got an FX37, so the Fortress, on our 50 foot boat. Didn't cost me that much - eBay has them come up 2nd hand occasionally, probably twice the price of the Danforth but half RRP of new.

 

Allows me to use more chain for the same weight of ground tackle overall, and bonus of being able to store it although it's not a 2 minute job to assemble. I wanted something better than the Danforth that was on the boat when we bought it, and as we regularly go onto the Severn it was one of the first things we changed.

 

Danforth now doing service as a garden ornament.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, gatekrash said:

Danforth now doing service as a garden ornament.

 

 

 

[howardang]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm seventy five years old.

I'm allowed to make outrageous statements.

When I started sailing marinas were a novelty, and prone to failure when winter weather kicked in,

Boats were hauled out from October to March, kept on moorings for summer.

A mere stripling. 
 

Howard

 

 

 

 

[Tim Lewis]

These should be ok 😂

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, gatekrash said:

I've got an FX37, so the Fortress, on our 50 foot boat. Didn't cost me that much - eBay has them come up 2nd hand occasionally, probably twice the price of the Danforth but half RRP of new.

 

The Fortress perfom exceptionally well in test (typical results show 4x the holding power vs the Danforth, and 2x the holding power of the Manson) - and all at around half of their weight.

 

The reason I didn't go for the Fortress is that in almost every test conducted either the shank or the flukes bend and make the anchor inoperable. Any lateral pull twists the shank, but at straight pull tests it is the best of a good bunch. The performance of the anchor exceeds the material capabilities.

 

In the test below, the "2nd best" perfoming anchor was the "Kobra 2", that is what I have fitted to our cruiser.

 

My spare anchor is a Bugel (came 3rd in the tests)

 

Whilst the kedge anchor is a Bruce

 

 

Yachting Monthly -Anchor Test Nov09.pdf

Edited June 7, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I bet there are not many others here who have. I used a mud weight on the Nene while we had dinner and that held a treat.

 

Interestingly I have never seen a holiday cruiser crossing Breydon Water carrying an anchor 

 

Ditto, but on the Thames in the spring with a bit more flow than high summer.  However, the Tideway is a different beast. I noticed around  6" drop of water level through some bridge arches, I doubt a mud weight would hold in that sort of flow.

 

I think it is far more important to get the fuel tank clean, new filter plus spares and know how to change them, and ensuring the cooling system is up to the job of running at high speed and load for long periods with no suspect hoses before     one starts to worry about the anchor, although in the end the anchor just might be vital, but needing it is far less likely if the boat is mechanically sound.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just to add a couple of points from the convoy that St Pancras Cruising Club organised last weekend

 

1)  One of the boats did run aground on a falling tide, and had a four hour wait.  They  did deploy their anchor at low water, to control the way they floated off when the tide rose again. This worked very well, though with the benefit of hindsight I should have suggested a trip line. This is a line attached to the bottom of the anchor, with a buoy or float attached, and used to lift the anchor out of the mud. Makes recovery much easier.
 

2) It's really important to get well lined up for the bridge arches well in advance, so that if your anchor fails in the dead zone then you have some chance of going theough the bridge rather than hitting the bridge. The dead zone is the region before you get to the bridge where, if you try to deploy the anchor, it won't stop you before you get to the bridge.

3) We rarely go above normal canal cruising speed. But clean fuel (not just clean filters) is really important.

 

Here's a photo (on the way back from the anchor store in Gravesend, that @Tim Lewis  posted about earlier). Not a bad attempt at a straight line.
 

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

2) It's really important to get well lined up for the bridge arches well in advance, so that if your anchor fails in the dead zone then you have some chance of going theough the bridge rather than hitting the bridge. The dead zone is the region before you get to the bridge where, if you try to deploy the anchor, it won't stop you before you get to the bridge.

 

I echo that, but also because running with the tide you are going fast over the ground, and it is all too easy, when used to slow rivers and canals, to leave the lining up too late, so the stern bounces off a bridge pier - or worse. If you ever get a boat broadside across a bridge arch You will need a push or two to unpin you and get you away.

[Scholar Gypsy]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I echo that, but also because running with the tide you are going fast over the ground, and it is all too easy, when used to slow rivers and canals, to leave the lining up too late, so the stern bounces off a bridge pier - or worse. If you ever get a boat broadside across a bridge arch You will need a push or two to unpin you and get you away.

I think only one boat ended up hitting a buoy ....

[Ewan123]

Thanks to all for the requested and bonus advice. Here's what I've settled on. I won't pretend it's perfect but it's a good deal better than what we had before (chain and anchor as original):

 

New 30m of 20mm 3-strand nylon (manky old polyprop retired)

 

 

Secured to solid part of boat not T-stud

 

 

Red scribble is where the rope will be tied. Blue is a snubber for ease of deployment/retrieval (on a quick release knot).

 

 

 

I might try and get my hands on a longer chain for the first part so that we can do it from standing in the well deck.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ewan123

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

2) It's really important to get well lined up for the bridge arches well in advance,

Thirded!

Some years ago we were going up the Tidal Thames as part of an organised convoy. We were well back in the running order and just following the boat in front, when we got a message that the PLA had taken the lead boat to task for leading us all through an arch which was marked as closed to navigation. Those of us at the back were asked to change course to pass through the adjacent open span. I thought we had plenty of time to do this, but the incoming tide was taking us rapidly upriver, and we only just managed to miss the bridge pier and go through the correct arch. The buildup of water against the end of the pier cutwater was substantial and I realised if we had hit the bridge it would have been one hell of a bang!