robtheplod Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hi All When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following: Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline. and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....? My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey? I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first? thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) Quote 5 minutes ago, robtheplod said: Hi All When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following: Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline. and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....? My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey? I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first? thanks!! YES Edited May 28, 2022 by ditchcrawler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, robtheplod said: Hi All When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following: Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline. and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....? My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey? I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first? thanks!! And a yes from me. That is how I did mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) The loop is the bit that rises above the skin fitting not the bit below so follow the yellow brick road , I mean your red line. 😉 Edited May 28, 2022 by Slim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 Personally I would use a Yorkshire (solder fitting) elbow or bend pointing upwards on a short stub of hose at the skin fitting and a pair to form the swan neck at the top of the swan neck. This depends upon the hose bore/fitting being suitable. The bump where the solder is on the inside will allow the clips to get a secure grip between hose and fitting. That way the water will drain from one side of the swan neck out of the skin fitting and back into the bilge from the other side. Stupid & shonky job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 hours ago, robtheplod said: Hi All When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following: Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline. and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....? My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey? I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first? thanks!! is that bilge pump drain pipe clipped onto a pair of solar panel cables? Even if not, that looks a disgracefully lazy installation. Shocking in fact! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve56 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 hours ago, MtB said: is that bilge pump drain pipe clipped onto a pair of solar panel cables? Even if not, that looks a disgracefully lazy installation. Shocking in fact! It looks like a steel bar welded to the hull for clipping cables, pipes etc. A few boatbuilders do it this way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted May 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 6 hours ago, Steve56 said: It looks like a steel bar welded to the hull for clipping cables, pipes etc. A few boatbuilders do it this way. close.... its actually the two fuel feeder pipes... not great but better than them being cables...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 16 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: Personally I would use a Yorkshire (solder fitting) elbow or bend pointing upwards on a short stub of hose at the skin fitting and a pair to form the swan neck at the top of the swan neck. This depends upon the hose bore/fitting being suitable. The bump where the solder is on the inside will allow the clips to get a secure grip between hose and fitting. That way the water will drain from one side of the swan neck out of the skin fitting and back into the bilge from the other side. Stupid & shonky job. The same effect could be achieved with one less elbow. The elbow on the skin fitting should be orientated so its inlet is 45 deg to the vertical and the second elbow positioned to form the apex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted May 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. outlet is above water so hopefully wont get to that stage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. True, but a surveyor will stick with the RCD/RCR requirements for hull openings to cover his back while a BSS examiner may well twist a recommendation into a mandate unless challenged. I suppose the OP could always fit a syphon breaker at the high point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 I have never had a BSS question hull penetration height. I don't know what surveyors work to or why the OP feels he has to follow their advice if he doesn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 Syphon break is the answer here. I reckon just a really small hole in the top of the discharge pipe above waterline would do it. There might be a little bit of water getting out when bilge pump is running but it won't be all that significant unless the bilge pump is in use a lot. If bilge pump is in use a lot then there is a more serious issue that needs dealing with because bilge pumps are not completely reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted May 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said: I have never had a BSS question hull penetration height. I don't know what surveyors work to or why the OP feels he has to follow their advice if he doesn't want to. I'm assuming if i have no raised swans neck/bend etc then it'll start to come up on BSS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 21 minutes ago, robtheplod said: I'm assuming if i have no raised swans neck/bend etc then it'll start to come up on BSS ? No. For private boats it is an advisory item, but we know some examiners think advisory means mandatory. If the boat is post about 1998 then a hull opening less than 10" (in mm) above the water line would contravene the RCD/RCR but not the BSS for private boats. In my view it was correct ADVICE from a surveyor that presented a flooding risk but no more than that - but I am not a surveyor, who knows what their "professional" body has told them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: who knows what their "professional" body has told them. Do they have one? There are old threads on here asking what makes a "qualified surveyor" and I don't remember any definitive conclusion being reached. But I know my memory is fading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 minute ago, MtB said: Do they have one? There are old threads on here asking what makes a "qualified surveyor" and I don't remember any definitive conclusion being reached. But I know my memory is fading. There are surveyor's bodies like my own IMI or IRTE who probably hold seminars and publish a house magazine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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