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Bilge pump tubing...


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Hi All

 

When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following:

 

Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline.

 

and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! :) ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....?

 

My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey?  I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first?

 

thanks!!

 

 

20220528_101217.jpg

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5 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

 

When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following:

 

Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline.

 

and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! :) ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....?

 

My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey?  I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first?

 

thanks!!

 

 

20220528_101217.jpg

 

YES

Edited by ditchcrawler
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18 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

 

When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following:

 

Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline.

 

and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! :) ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....?

 

My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey?  I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first?

 

thanks!!

 

 

20220528_101217.jpg

And a yes from me. That is how I did mine. 

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The loop is the bit that rises above the skin fitting not the bit below so follow the yellow brick road , I mean your red line. 😉 

Edited by Slim
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Personally I would use a Yorkshire (solder fitting) elbow or bend pointing upwards on a short stub of hose at the skin fitting and a pair to form the swan neck at the top of the swan neck. This depends upon the hose bore/fitting being suitable. The bump where the solder is on the inside will allow the clips to get a secure grip between hose and fitting.

 

That way the water will drain from one side of the swan neck out of the skin fitting and back into the bilge from the other side.

 

Stupid & shonky job.

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4 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

 

When we got our boat in 2019 the survey highlighted the following:

 

Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline.

 

and so the seller (Whilton - Yes, I know Alan! :) ) put in the following pipe work. I'm in the process of replacing the bilge pump and sorting the wiring but im not really keen on the loop of this as water will gather, and in winter could possibly freeze and thus become ineffective.....?

 

My question is can i reduce the length of this to how I've drawn in red whilst keeping to the survey?  I can't see any reason for any issues but i may be missing something and wanted to run this by you first?

 

thanks!!

 

 

20220528_101217.jpg

 

 

is that bilge pump drain pipe clipped onto a pair of solar panel cables? Even if not, that looks a disgracefully lazy installation.

 

Shocking in fact! 

 

 

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3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

is that bilge pump drain pipe clipped onto a pair of solar panel cables? Even if not, that looks a disgracefully lazy installation.

 

Shocking in fact! 

 

 

It looks like a steel bar welded to the hull for clipping cables, pipes etc. A few boatbuilders do it this way.

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6 hours ago, Steve56 said:

It looks like a steel bar welded to the hull for clipping cables, pipes etc. A few boatbuilders do it this way.

close.... its actually the two fuel feeder pipes... not great but better than them being cables......

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I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. 

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16 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Personally I would use a Yorkshire (solder fitting) elbow or bend pointing upwards on a short stub of hose at the skin fitting and a pair to form the swan neck at the top of the swan neck. This depends upon the hose bore/fitting being suitable. The bump where the solder is on the inside will allow the clips to get a secure grip between hose and fitting.

 

That way the water will drain from one side of the swan neck out of the skin fitting and back into the bilge from the other side.

 

Stupid & shonky job.

The same effect could be achieved with one less elbow.  The elbow on the skin fitting should be orientated so its inlet is 45 deg to the vertical and the second elbow positioned to form the apex.

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5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. 

outlet is above water so hopefully wont get to that stage.... :)

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5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I cant see the point of a swan neck as if the boat is so low the outlet is underwater when the pump stops due to a flat battery the water will syphon back in anyway. I have known this to happen with an ex working boat and a temporary pump with the hose going up overtop of the gunwale and the end dropping into the canal. As soon as the pump stopped the water came back in, pump started and pumped out, this continued until the battery was flat, then the boat sank. 

 

True, but a surveyor will stick with the RCD/RCR requirements for hull openings to cover his back while a BSS examiner may well twist a recommendation into a mandate unless challenged. I suppose the OP could always fit  a syphon breaker at the high point.

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I have never had a BSS question hull penetration height. I don't know what surveyors work to or why the OP feels he has to follow their advice if he doesn't want to.

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Syphon break is the answer here. I reckon just a really small hole in the top of the discharge pipe above waterline would do it. There might  be a little bit of water getting out when bilge pump is running but it won't be all that significant unless the bilge pump is in use a lot. If bilge pump is in use a lot then there is a more serious issue that needs dealing with because bilge pumps are not completely reliable. 

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have never had a BSS question hull penetration height. I don't know what surveyors work to or why the OP feels he has to follow their advice if he doesn't want to.

I'm assuming if i have no raised swans neck/bend etc then it'll start to come up on BSS ?

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21 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I'm assuming if i have no raised swans neck/bend etc then it'll start to come up on BSS ?

 

No. For private boats it is an advisory item, but we know some examiners think advisory means mandatory. If the boat is post about 1998 then a hull opening less than 10" (in mm) above the water line would contravene the RCD/RCR but not the BSS for private boats.

 

In my view it was correct ADVICE from a surveyor that presented a flooding risk but no more than that - but I am not a surveyor, who knows what their "professional" body has told them.

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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

who knows what their "professional" body has told them.

 

 

Do they have one?

 

There are old threads on here asking what makes a "qualified surveyor" and I don't remember any definitive conclusion being reached. But I know my memory is fading. 

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1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

Do they have one?

 

There are old threads on here asking what makes a "qualified surveyor" and I don't remember any definitive conclusion being reached. But I know my memory is fading. 

 

There are surveyor's bodies like my own IMI or IRTE who probably hold seminars and publish a house magazine.

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