Reliable, skilled boat builders.

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, Athy said:

Aarrgghh!

But both are widebeams, just as in the car world there are beautiful cars, O.K. cars and Dacia Dusters.

 

But wide beamed boats are a different thing from what is generally termed "a widebeam" in our world of canal boats. On here the term "widebeam" is a contraction of "widebeamed narrowboat", meaning a boat built in the style of a leisure narrowboat but wider. The result usually being something plug-ugly as per the photo I posted. 

 

 

[Tonka]

But the op wants a reliable boat builder and doesn't reliable mean to build the same thing over and over again. 

So if the first one is bad and he carries on building bad, he is reliable

[Athy]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

But wide beamed boats are a different thing from what is generally termed "a widebeam" in our world of canal boats. On here the term "widebeam" is a contraction of "widebeamed narrowboat", meaning a boat built in the style of a leisure narrowboat but wider. The result usually being something plug-ugly as per the photo I posted. 

 

 

You have a point, of course. But surely any craft which won't go through a narrow lock is a widebeam?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But the op wants a reliable boat builder and doesn't reliable mean to build the same thing over and over again. 

So if the first one is bad and he carries on building bad, he is reliable

 

That is the principle behind the ISO 9000 quality approval system.

 

It doesn't matter how good or bad your product is as long as it is the same everytime you get your ISO9000 approval

[Tonka]

17 minutes ago, Athy said:

You have a point, of course. But surely any craft which won't go through a narrow lock is a widebeam?

So is the Queen Elizabeth a widebeam

[Athy]

23 minutes ago, Tonka said:

So is the Queen Elizabeth a widebeam

It's a ship (if it still exists - I'm not sure).

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

It's a ship (if it still exists - I'm not sure).

 

Ok now we swerve off at another great tangent.

 

How big can a boat be before it becomes a ship?

 

 

More than 65ft x 12ft 6in, I'd submit! 

 

 

[Poppin]

So far the only builder I can find that incorporates a chine but does not impact the living space is bluewater. They do this by raising the floor and using underfloor for tanks, etc. But there are some dubious stories emerging about them. 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Ok now we swerve off at another great tangent.

 

How big can a boat be before it becomes a ship?

 

 

More than 65ft x 12ft 6in, I'd submit! 

 

 

 

Determined by - the size of their engine(s) ..............................

 

 

 

 

 

The most important aspect that is considered while stating the difference between a ship and a boat is the size. It is said that the best way to differentiate between a ship and a boat is to remember that “A ship can carry a boat, but a boat cannot carry a ship.”

Technically speaking, a mode of water transport that weighs at least 500 tonnes or above is categorised as a ship. In comparison, boats are stipulated to be quite compact in their structural size and displacement.

 

Even though all vessels operating in the high seas are referred to as ships, submersible vessels are categorically termed as ‘boats.’

This is mainly because of the fact that in the earlier centuries, submersible vessels could be hoisted on ships till they were required to be used in naval operations.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[BEngo]

47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It doesn't matter how good or bad your product is as long as it is the same everytime you get your ISO9000 approval

It also has to be what the customer ordered.  Poor product, but exactly as was ordered is still good Quality.

 

N

[booke23]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

there are beautiful cars, O.K. cars and Dacia Dusters.

 

Do you mean from an aesthetic point of view?

 

I get the impression Dacia's are ok cars.....I see plenty of taxi drivers using them.  

(Apologies to the OP for another tangent of discussion!)

Edited May 28, 2022 by booke23

[Poppin]

So far the only builder I can find that incorporates a chine but does not impact the living space is bluewater. They do this by raising the floor and using underfloor for tanks, etc. But there are some dubious stories emerging about them. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Poppin said:

So far the only builder I can find that incorporates a chine but does not impact the living space is bluewater. They do this by raising the floor and using underfloor for tanks, etc. But there are some dubious stories emerging about them. 

If you are considering a widebeam that cannot be used on much of the UK network, why not look at Dutch Barges - they come in a variety of sizes and hull shapes.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, BEngo said:

It also has to be what the customer ordered.  Poor product, but exactly as was ordered is still good Quality.

 

N

 

If the customer has ordered a proprietary part then it is up to the customer to ensure that what they are ordering is what they want, the reponsibility is not on the manufacturer to ensure they supply what the customer needs.

 

If I order a 'Ford Fiesta', and when it is delivered saying I expected it to be 4WD and tow my 3 tonne trailer, whose fault is it that the 'wrong' vehicle was supplied ?

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If I order a 'Ford Fiesta', and when it is delivered saying I expected it to be 4WD and tow my 3 tonne trailer, whose fault is it that the 'wrong' vehicle was supplied ?

But you would expect it to have 4 wheels all firmly attached and an engine/gear train that worked with no water leaking in around the windscreen.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

But you would expect it to have 4 wheels all firmly attached and an engine/gear train that worked with no water leaking in around the windscreen.

 

Only if it was specified in the methods section of ISO9000

[Athy]

40 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Ok now we swerve off at another great tangent.

 

How big can a boat be before it becomes a ship?

 

 

More than 65ft x 12ft 6in, I'd submit! 

 

 

Yes, wide-ranging development of discussions is part of the appeal of CWDF.

I remember Ray Bowern at Streethay Wharf referring to narrowboats as "ships" but I don't think he was typical in his usage.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Athy

[Barneyp]

28 minutes ago, BEngo said:

It also has to be what the customer ordered.  Poor product, but exactly as was ordered is still good Quality.

 

N

quality

/ˈkwɒlɪti/

noun

1. 1.

   the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.

   "an improvement in product quality"

    

    

   The word quality on it's own does not mean it is good. "High quality" indicates a good product.

    

   Quality control is about maintaining a predetermined standard, that standard could be high or low. 

    

   And what makes a high standard is highly subjective. Some people think a Bentley is a high quality car, others would much prefer a small practical vehicle and would think a Toyota Yaris is high quality.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

But wide beamed boats are a different thing from what is generally termed "a widebeam" in our world of canal boats. On here the term "widebeam" is a contraction of "widebeamed narrowboat", meaning a boat built in the style of a leisure narrowboat but wider. The result usually being something plug-ugly as per the photo I posted. 

 

 

 

There used to be wide boats on the Grand Union, which were built up to 12ft 6ins wide. They were basicly wide "Narrowboats" and were known as Wideboats. Anything wider was usually referred to as a Barge. Progress was an example of a Wiideboat

 

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

quality

/ˈkwɒlɪti/

noun

1. 1.

    

    

    

   The word quality on it's own does not mean it is good.

...as anyone who's ever bought meat from Quality Butchers in Camden Town will confirm.

[David Mack]

43 minutes ago, Poppin said:

So far the only builder I can find that incorporates a chine but does not impact the living space is bluewater. They do this by raising the floor and using underfloor for tanks, etc. But there are some dubious stories emerging about them. 

In which case why not go for a shallower draft flat bottomed boat without a chine. All that unused underwater space has to be held down below water level, which means correspondingly more ballast is needed. There's a reason why most flat bottomed wide beams have relatively shallow draft.

[Athy]

18 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

There used to be wide boats on the Grand Union, which were built up to 12ft 6ins wide. They were basicly wide "Narrowboats" and were known as Wideboats. Anything wider was usually referred to as a Barge. Progress was an example of a Wiideboat

 

 

 

 

 

A cabinned replica of that would be a handsome craft. While a number of specialist builders have produced hulls which are replicas of narrowbeam working boats, I'm not sure that any of them has built a replica widebeam (or wideboat, which seems a logical name).

[Mike Adams]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

I think the OP has more in mind something like this:

 

Apart from being a hideous box destined to ruin the character of the waterways it is fitted with the classic cill removal tool - a drop skeg without any lead into it!

[David Schweizer]

I have just found this photo (from C&RT archives) of Progress nearing completion at Bushells Yard. I believe this is how it would have looked in normal operation. I suspect that the canopy top was merely added for the ceremonial opening of the Grand Union. It was apparently fitted with a full cabin in the 1970's, but I am still lookong for a photo.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by David Schweizer

[Poppin]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

In which case why not go for a shallower draft flat bottomed boat without a chine. All that unused underwater space has to be held down below water level, which means correspondingly more ballast is needed. There's a reason why most flat bottomed wide beams have relatively shallow draft.

but what decent builder will make me something like this? It seems that most insist of a chine for a 12ft wide vessel. There must be others than collingwood? Collingwood a prices these says are basically the same as the others and I’ve seen too many with things wrong