Jump to content

BSS Requirements.


nb stumpy

Featured Posts

The BSS is due about my boat. During a pre inspection by the BSS examiner he has advised me that the oven / hob will need to be removed to expose the flexible LPG pipes providing the gas supply.  It is a BSS requirement that all LPG joints and flexible pipes couplings are available for inspection. I have owned the boat for two previous BSS certifications and not previously had to expose these flexible pipes. Have I just been lucky is my examiner interpreting the rules more stringently or have the rules been recently changed? It seems very strange that I need to dismantle the oven and hob to expose these flexible pipes never having had to do so before.  I can imagine on some boats this requirement could involve stripping cupboards and units to gain access.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it is an over-zealous inspector.

 

The BSS requirements are quite clear - all joints should be capable of being inspected, as already stated.

 

It's more than that though - they should also be inspecting the hose for defects or deterioration.

 

There are no recent changes to these requirements,  I think, so I suggest your previous inspectors have been lax.

 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nb stumpy said:

Have I just been lucky is my examiner interpreting the rules more stringently or have the rules been recently changed? It seems very strange that I need to dismantle the oven and hob to expose these flexible pipes never having had to do so before. 

 

I'd say you have a new inspector on your hands rather than a new rule. Especially given the bod seems to be doing 'pre-inspections' too! To do an inspection which checks every requirement in all 166 pages of them in the PDF would take at least a day I'd say, possibly two, leading to costs running into many hundreds of £. So corners HAVE to be cut and removing ovens to look at the flex is a great one that will probably save 30 minutes on the average boat. 

 

Here's the PDF for you to have a scan through. It will take you at least an hour to even read it properly, let alone carry it all out. 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/299273/bss-examination-checking-procedures-interim-public-version.pdf

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As had been said your 'new' examiner is 100% correct - it makes you wonder what else your previous examiners have not done properly or have missed.

 

It is time that the BSS ensured that the examiners did the job properly, despite complaints about some examiners nothing ever improves.

The examiners also need to be recompensed properly for the time take to do a thorough job.

 

Sitting in the saloon saying 'it passed last time so I'll pass it this time' (as my last BSS examiner did) does no one any favours and brings the whole system into disrepute.

 

Rant over.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As had been said your 'new' examiner is 100% correct - it makes you wonder what else your previous examiners have not done properly or have missed.

 

It is time that the BSS ensured that the examiners did the job properly, despite complaints about some examiners nothing ever improves.

The examiners also need to be recompensed properly for the time take to do a thorough job.

 

Sitting in the saloon saying 'it passed last time so I'll pass it this time' (as my last BSS examiner did) does no one any favours and brings the whole system into disrepute.

 

Rant over.

Up to a point, yes. My BSS examiner wanted to be able to see the connections at the back of the oven. Checking for compression fittings used, no unnecessary connections etc. Which was fair enough. But when he came back 4 years later, he didn’t feel the need to see same again because nothing had changed, same oven in place so it would be highly improbable that the fittings had suddenly been changed to solder, an extra connection installed etc. IMO this sort of pragmatism is perfectly acceptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Up to a point, yes. My BSS examiner wanted to be able to see the connections at the back of the oven. Checking for compression fittings used, no unnecessary connections etc. Which was fair enough. But when he came back 4 years later, he didn’t feel the need to see same again because nothing had changed, same oven in place so it would be highly improbable that the fittings had suddenly been changed to solder, an extra connection installed etc. IMO this sort of pragmatism is perfectly acceptable.

 

Agreed - but in my case it was a different examiner to the one who did the previous examination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

My oven was installed by my BSS examiner so I presume he was happy with the installation as it wasn't removed on the last BSS.

My electrics were installed by my BSS examiner. Unfortunately the next one didn't understand the wiring and made me do it all again. The scheme was rubbish when it started and is rubbish now.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just returned from my boat, oven now removed exposing flexible. I'll refit same after BSS examiner is satisfied.  Was a bit of a tinker to get out given the amount of saw dust and bits of detritus I found behind it I would say it's extremely unlikely it has ever been removed since it's original installation.  I have read the BSS spec. concerning LPG installation and required checks I have no problem with the BSS requirements very clearly identified. I was shocked when the examiner forewarned me he was expecting to inspect the said flexible but I've got over it. Hopefully less experienced members of the forum will now at least be aware of the requirement and not be as shocked as I was. As always thanks to all contributors to this thread overall the responses give a  balanced view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

My electrics were installed by my BSS examiner. Unfortunately the next one didn't understand the wiring and made me do it all again. The scheme was rubbish when it started and is rubbish now.

 

 

As I often suggest on here, a lot of the requirements in the BSS are a matter of opinion. 

 

 

(Personal opinion of the particular examiner doing the examination on the day, I mean.)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/05/2022 at 08:28, nb stumpy said:

The BSS is due about my boat. During a pre inspection by the BSS examiner he has advised me that the oven / hob will need to be removed to expose the flexible LPG pipes providing the gas supply.  It is a BSS requirement that all LPG joints and flexible pipes couplings are available for inspection. I have owned the boat for two previous BSS certifications and not previously had to expose these flexible pipes. Have I just been lucky is my examiner interpreting the rules more stringently or have the rules been recently changed? It seems very strange that I need to dismantle the oven and hob to expose these flexible pipes never having had to do so before.  I can imagine on some boats this requirement could involve stripping cupboards and units to gain access.

I wonder if you misinterpreted.

OR is he a Gas Safe, (lpg+boat) examiner by any chance and the others were not?

I had a Gas Safe lpg and boat to do my twenty year old boat and he modified the instal, as in, it had not been installed according to manufacturer guidelines, it had been fitted with armoured hose.

Now the cooker which is a Caprice (Thetford?), and designed for boats,  is fixed, ie built in: it is one complete item, ie a cooker with four burners, a grill, and an oven.

However he pulled it out and thus was able to inspect it. There was no dismantling, but I did not quiz him.

It is possible this has been brought to the attention of the BSC examiners board and is now, after twenty years or whatever being enforced. BUT possibly only if the examiner is GasSafe boat+lpg?

Just a thought.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It is possible this has been brought to the attention of the BSC examiners board and is now, after twenty years or whatever being enforced. BUT possibly only if the examiner is GasSafe boat+lpg?

 

 

Whether the examiner is Gas Safe or not, he is supposed to be inspecting for compliance with the the same set of standards, the BSS standards.

 

As I never tire of pointing out, there are so many things to inspect in the BSS document that any examiner checking them all would rapidly go out of business as any proper examination would take at least a whole day. Given most examinations are completed in about an hour, we can be confident a large proportion of the defined checks were not carried out. Variations from one examiner to another are a result of each examiner leaving out different checks.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Whether the examiner is Gas Safe or not, he is supposed to be inspecting for compliance with the the same set of standards, the BSS standards.

 

As I never tire of pointing out, there are so many things to inspect in the BSS document that any examiner checking them all would rapidly go out of business as any proper examination would take at least a whole day. Given most examinations are completed in about an hour, we can be confident a large proportion of the defined checks were not carried out. Variations from one examiner to another are a result of each examiner leaving out different checks.

 

 

 

A situation which is going to get progressively worse and so less and less efficient, as well as more and more expensive, as more and more petty rules are introduced. Sooner or later some extremely peed off boater is going to sue an examiner for failing a perfectly safe boat and demanding a thousand quids worth of unnecessary modifications.

I was lucky - mine only cost six hundred.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/05/2022 at 09:11, nicknorman said:

It is a requirement to be able to see that stuff. In the case of our (high level) oven, I was able to remove the cutlery drawer which allowed the BSS chap to see the connections with a mirror.

 

I've had to do the same thing in the past. All LPG joints should be available for inspection. If joints have been made behind cabinets which are difficult to remove then whoever did that installation didn't know the BSS requirements or didn't care. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/05/2022 at 15:34, nb stumpy said:

Just returned from my boat, oven now removed exposing flexible. I'll refit same after BSS examiner is satisfied.  Was a bit of a tinker to get out given the amount of saw dust and bits of detritus I found behind it I would say it's extremely unlikely it has ever been removed since it's original installation. 

 

Ok good. When you refit the oven make sure you do it so it's easier to remove it in future.

 

Ideally for purely practical purposes, all boat installations and even panelling and floorboards should be able to be removed without cutting or sawing, but few boats seen to be fitted that way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cut an inspection hole in the side of the sink unit to allow access to the gas piping. Not too difficult now we have vibrating multi-tools. Also, on a Caprice I fitted  a lift-off stainless steel trim between the back of the cooker and the hull lining, but that prespposes the gunnels are high enough.

 

I blame the cooker manufacturers for not having lift off burners & hob.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Sooner or later some extremely peed off boater is going to sue an examiner for failing a perfectly safe boat and demanding a thousand quids worth of unnecessary modifications.

I believe there is an appeal process so if you disagree you do have recourse. The last inspector I had was a retired technical author who trained up for precisely the reasons you say - he was incensed at being told to cut ruddy great vents in his doors among other things and after talking to his neighbours found it was very common for inspectors not to have a proper understanding of the rules. I have a theory that some inspectors fear that it looks like they haven't done their job if they don't find something to fail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Slow and Steady said:

I believe there is an appeal process so if you disagree you do have recourse.

 

 

I've tried to use that a 'time or two'.

 

First time was when the boat 'failed' the BSS for not having an RCD when it is just an advisory.

Extract from the BSS (Section 3:5:1)

 

Advice for owners – it is strongly advised that a Residual Current Device (RCD) is installed to provide appropriate electric shock protection on a.c. systems

 

When you complain the answers you get seems to be "we will investigate to see if the examiner needs to have more training" on asking if I will hear any more about their findings : "no, anything that happens will be confidential between the examiner and the BSS"

 

In other words, "don't bother bringing anything to our attention, we will do nothing about it, now go away"

 

Maybe others had had more success ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.