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Boat security, advice would be hugely appreciated


JollyWonker

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Hiya folks

 

We’re taking our first foray into boat life next week and we’re super excited. Our offer has been accepted on a lovely 70’ trad narrowboat just North of London and we’re trading for the keys on Tuesday. Just have a quick question if that’s OK. Our plan is to navigate the waterways of the UK half the month then return home, so essentially 2 weeks on 2 weeks off unless work permits otherwise (which could go either way). 
 

Permanent mooring, as far as I understand it is out of the question as we couldn’t go far enough before returning. So the first question would be how difficult would it be to find temp, secure mornings for the 2 weeks we’d be away from the boat in various locations. 
 

The follow-up would be on securing the bus Windows so we can leave her (with CCTV/ alarms) on the towpath with some piece of mind. 
 

Is there anything wrong with drilling M8 holes through the cabin sides, one on each side of every bus window? 
 

The plan is to secure 5mm steel plates over each window by bolting from inside the cabin into threaded holes on the rear of the plates. I’d use grommets to keep it water tight when we’re on the boat, I just want to double check on structural integrity or whether any other potential issues could crop up. 
 

Thanks loads! The comments, info and users on this forum went a huge way in making us take the plunge so I hope I can be of some help once I know more. 

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If it were me, I'd stick in a short term marina for those two weeks, but there are plenty don't. This week on Facebook, only one boat's been stolen so far while another left abandoned on the towpath has apparently had a tree fallen on top of it for a week.

A decent boat is a huge investment, and there is no way a boat can be left in a public place with any security. Boats are very easy to break into. If it gets stolen, and sold on quickly, how do you prove it was ever yours?

Plenty of people will be along in a minute to say they've done this for years with no problems, but it still seems daft to me!

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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The flip side of steel plates over windows could be that, if it looks like fort knox, someone might think there's something worth trying to break in for, compared to the boats not obviously highly secured. And it's also an indicator that nobody's at home. 

Edited by Ianws
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Hi Arthur 

 

thanks for the super speedy response! Reassuring to know there’s so few thefts considering the number of boats but I’m not so worried about that. There’s plenty of parts I’ll be taken to make sure it doesn’t sail and the CCTV/GPS will help..what I am concerned about is somebody putting a window through to squat or to just have themselves a drunken boat party..and the damage done can be pretty swift. The doors at the bow end are metal and secure and the stern hatch is reinforced. So it just leaves the 7(!) bus Windows! If we can find temp morrings wherever we land then happy days - I’m just mindful that with our work commitments it might not always be that simple. In an ideal world, I’d like a back up. 7 steel plates would be easy to stow and maybe take half hour to fit. Then it would be an angle grinder job through the cabin and I doubt many would be up for that.

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If you have CCTV and alarms what are you planning on doing if they are triggered and your miles away, are you going to drop everything and spend a few hours rushing to the boat...?  I agree with Arthur and would look for temporary moorings where you are planning to leave it.

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Have you calculated the weight of each plate and have you considered precisely how you  will physically lift and fit and remove the plates . Not only that how and where will you store the plates when not fitted.

 

Whats the plan for securing the doors ?

 

 

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Robm - In terms of the CCTV I’d have no option other than to alert the authorities that a break in is in progress and a 2-way intercom to warn the trespassers (that I have their photos and police are one their way) helps. Whether the police arrive in time to avoid damage or if they can be assed to walk up the tow path is out of my control, but for a few 100 it’s worth it. 
 

martyng..No I have not considered the weight of the plates but to hazard a guess I’d say c.3 or 4kg ea. So physically lifting isn’t an issue (mid 30’s and as a fiddle). Storing isn’t an issue - it’s a 70’ boat for me, partner and child with loads of storage so I think we’ll be fine..might need 30x300x250mm. If you’re point is regarding weight distribution then there’s bus windows on each side to balance and standing on the side didn’t sink her. And as mentioned, previous owner us done a bloody good job on the doors.
 

totally agree mooring would be ideal but I have my own company which allows me to work remotely but if I get called in I need to go in - I won’t always be able to afford the time trying to find suitable mooring, unfortunately 

Edited by JollyWonker
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Lots of boats are moored on the towpath on visitor moorings, permanent CRT towpath moorings, and everywhere in between. And other boats are moored on almost as insecure offside farm moorings, and not all marina moorings are behind locked gates.

Yet very very few boats come to any harm. A boat that looks tidy and well cared for is unlikely to be a target, as long as you don't leave valuables on view or anything readily nickable (poles, planks, empty gas bottles etc.) on the roof or deck. Just be sensible about your choice of mooring site.

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Thanks, that is super reassuring. I’ll order the CCTV stuff just as a precaution tonight in time for our maiden voyage and hold fire on the plates until I get a better feel of what we’re dealing with, which means I don’t need to go into work tomorrow! 

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I think if it were me, I'd concentrate on making sure the bow doors and stern hatch can't be casually prised open with a crowbar/screwdriver as that tends to be the modus operandi of people who break into boats. This means having locks and bolts that are secured by coach bolts through metal rather than into the woodwork, and avoiding padlocks (they also advertise you are not there). Scrotes tend not to break windows to gain access to boats....this is the preserve of the idle vandal! 

 

You'll never stop someone with a battery powered angle grinder, and as mentioned, metal plates on the windows might make someone think it's worth going to the trouble of coming back with an angle grinder to get in!

 

Also consider measures that make the boat looked occupied.....lights on timers etc. 

Edited by booke23
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Marina option is safest. If you join an AWCC affiliated boat club you can usually find inexpensive short term mooring around the system. Marina's a great too but sometimes expensive. We paid £26 a night last year but it was a high-end marina.

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I wouldn't rely on the police response in case of break-in or theft. The woman whose boat was stolen says that they told her they were too busy to attend , even though she knew where the boat was and who was on it. CCTV images aren't much use if no-one is going to look for anyone. I suppose they might help your insurance claim.

If you stay out of city areas the boat will almost certainly be ok. Probably.

I got a load of abuse on FB (not surprisingly) for suggesting that dumping tens of thousands quids worth of boat and contents on a towpath was about as sensible as buying a TV for a grand,  leaving it on the pavement outside your house, going on holiday and expecting it to be there when you get back.

And every scrote who has ever nicked a bike has a battery powered angle grinder these days. You simply cannot make a boat secure. The more steel they have to jemmy to get in, the more it'll cost you to repair. And making it look smart just makes it worth breaking into - only an idiot would bother with an old tub like mine... but they have,  twice.

Think how much dosh you've spent on the boat, and how much your licence costs. Then risk it all by skimping on a fraction of that in marina costs for a fortnight here and there.

I simply don't understand the mentality of it.

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21 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

Robm - In terms of the CCTV I’d have no option other than to alert the authorities that a break in is in progress and a 2-way intercom to warn the trespassers (that I have their photos and police are one their way) helps. Whether the police arrive in time to avoid damage or if they can be assed to walk up the tow path is out of my control, but for a few 100 it’s worth it. 
 

martyng..No I have not considered the weight of the plates but to hazard a guess I’d say c.3 or 4kg ea. So physically lifting isn’t an issue (mid 30’s and as a fiddle). Storing isn’t an issue - it’s a 70’ boat for me, partner and child with loads of storage so I think we’ll be fine..might need 30x300x250mm. If you’re point is regarding weight distribution then there’s bus windows on each side to balance and standing on the side didn’t sink her. And as mentioned, previous owner us done a bloody good job on the doors.
 

totally agree mooring would be ideal but I have my own company which allows me to work remotely but if I get called in I need to go in - I won’t always be able to afford the time trying to find suitable mooring, unfortunately 

 

You mean the police?  If there is a burglary in progress in a house they likely won't turn up, will just phone you a few days later with a crime number?  Anything to do with boats and they will almost certainly won't turn up..

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All brilliant points. I’m not overly paranoid. I live in a village and my back door has been open for months (lost my key) but it’s good to know break-ins aren’t rife on the waterways, not to saying doesn’t happen. I thought moored boats would have been an ideal target for squatting..easy to scope, all mod-cons and often isolated. 
 

We will keep moorings our target, just be good for feel reassured when it’s not possible 

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

I got a load of abuse on FB (not surprisingly) for suggesting that dumping tens of thousands quids worth of boat and contents on a towpath was about as sensible as buying a TV for a grand,  leaving it on the pavement outside your house, going on holiday and expecting it to be there when you get back.

And yet the vast majority of motorists leave cars worth thousands of pounds parked on a street or in a front driveway.

4 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

I thought moored boats would have been an ideal target for squatting..easy to scope, all mod-cons and often isolated. 

Always turn off the electrics and the gas when leaving the boat, then the mod cons aren't so much use.

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Always turn off the electrics and the gas when leaving the boat, then the mod cons aren't so much use.

 

But, Isn't it a requirement of the BSS that you must have the location of your electric and gas 'master switches' easily visible ? (in case the emergency services need to access for a fire etc ?)

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10 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

You mean the police?  If there is a burglary in progress in a house they likely won't turn up, will just phone you a few days later with a crime number?  Anything to do with boats and they will almost certainly won't turn up..

True, but somebody telling you your being watched would certainly make me scarper. My baby monitor tells my watch every time there’s a movement or sound and I can see and talk to her wherever I am in the world. Theres gotta be something similar for boats..or if not I’ll just buy a few more nanitCams!  

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1 minute ago, JollyWonker said:

All brilliant points. I’m not overly paranoid. I live in a village and my back door has been open for months (lost my key) but it’s good to know break-ins aren’t rife on the waterways, not to saying doesn’t happen. I thought moored boats would have been an ideal target for squatting..easy to scope, all mod-cons and often isolated. 
 

We will keep moorings our target, just be good for feel reassured when it’s not possible 

Not much squatting, though both my breakins were tramps looking for somewhere to kip for the night and they then moved on. The generator theft was a bit more organised.  The current trend, as boat sales are booming, and there's no formal documentation, is to nick a boat, move it a bit and sell it cheap from the tow path. That seems to have happened a few times that we know about over the last year. You wind up with a bemused innocent party on a boat with a worthless receipt who has lost twenty grand, a vanished thief with lots of cash, and the original owner with a three year wait for a court to give him his boat back. And police who simply aren't interested.

It's certainly not rife, but it happens. And as the economic situation in the country is about to get a lot worse, easy crime like this where it's almost impossible to get caught is likely to increase. A change of name and quick paint job and you'd never find the boat again anyway.

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But, Isn't it a requirement of the BSS that you must have the location of your electric and gas 'master switches' easily visible ? (in case the emergency services need to access for a fire etc ?)

No problem, just put in a secondary ‘master switch’. If the second is open or on) and there’s an issue the relevant people can switch it off. If the secondary is closed (or off) then there’ll be no power and no problems. Sure the BSSwould be fine with that.

Edited by JollyWonker
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Just now, JollyWonker said:

No problem, just put in a secondary ‘master switch’. If the second is open or on) and there’s an issue the relevant people can switch it off. If the secondary is closed (or off) then there’ll be no power and no problems. Sure the best would be happy with that.

 

Have you ever had to comply with the safety requirements for a boat ? (which you need to meet to be granted a licence)

 

If the boat already has a BSSC you can invalidate it by changing (adding / removing / replacing) parts and systems that may no longer comply.

 

Fuel and gas are the two 'biggest sections' of the standards (rightly so).

 

BSS T&Cs

 

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

 

 

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5 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

True, but somebody telling you your being watched would certainly make me scarper. My baby monitor tells my watch every time there’s a movement or sound and I can see and talk to her wherever I am in the world. Theres gotta be something similar for boats..or if not I’ll just buy a few more nanitCams!  

Ive just read a Facebook report of burglars spending over half an hour raiding a premises and loading up their van with an alarm sounding. A neighbour called the police but they did not attend till the next day.  Modern criminals are very brazen because they know they will likely not be caught.

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11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And yet the vast majority of motorists leave cars worth thousands of pounds parked on a street or in a front driveway.

Always turn off the electrics and the gas when leaving the boat, then the mod cons aren't so much use.

Number plates, tax, insurance, police in cars with cameras that automatically spot any uninsured or untaxed car on the road (don't ask how I know...)...  as do endless cameras all over the road system. And still hundreds of cars get stolen every day. And cars have id numbers all over them and full legal documented owner histories.

Boats have nothing like that. They sell, essentially, on a handshake, which is nice but not terribly secure.

Best security idea is to weld the CRT number on the side so it can't be painted over.

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

Ive just read a Facebook report of burglars spending over half an hour raiding a premises and loading up their van with an alarm sounding. A neighbour called the police but they did not attend till the next day.  Modern criminals are very brazen because they know they will likely not be caught.

Bit like the guy who was sure his house was safe because of the rottweiler. They just stole the dog - damn things are worth a fortune.

A car thief and burglar I used to know told me he reckoned he had half an hour from when an alarm went off before anyone would even think to report it. A copper told me they had so many false alarms from them they never attended anyway.

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