Jump to content

Outboard engine stalls when putting into gear.


Featured Posts

I haven't used an outboard before so hopefully I'm just being stupid...

 

Its an older (pre 2000's) Honda Bf9.9 15hp

 

I tried both to manually and electric start it and it started up immediately, after not being used for 3 years and sounds good. It's been in the water that whole time or longer.

 

I can rev it in neutral using the rev lever ok.

But when I switch the lever to gear selection (or use the lever on the motor itself) and move it into forward or reverse it stalls the engine, if I try to do it slowly it crunches the gears.

 

I've read online but I'm just checking here to see if I'm missing something silly, or if it should just work like that?

 

When revving high in neutral it spins the propeller, if I leave it in neutral with the engine off the propeller is very stiff and I can't move it (I assumed it should be free?)

 

I have a service kit but wanted to drive the boat to where its being pulled out the water and do that when it's out the water.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

When in neutral, can you turn the prop by hand...?

 

15 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

if I leave it in neutral with the engine off the propeller is very stiff and I can't move it

 

My 1st port of call would be to investigate if the gearbox has siezed - if the seal has been damaged allowing water to enter (even fishing line around the prop shaft can rip the seal) then after 3 years of standing in water its not unreasonable to think it may be Siezed.

 

Get the manual - split the leg down and investigate, on re-assembly replace the impellor as that is likely to have siezed as well and you will get no engine cooling, after a few minutes of running with no water the engine will sieze.

 

Suggest you do not start it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

My 1st port of call would be to investigate if the gearbox has siezed - if the seal has been damaged allowing water to enter (even fishing line around the prop shaft can rip the seal) then after 3 years of standing in water its not unreasonable to think it may be Siezed.

 

Get the manual - split the leg down and investigate, on re-assembly replace the impellor as that is likely to have siezed as well and you will get no engine cooling, after a few minutes of running with no water the engine will sieze.

 

Suggest you do not start it again.

Makes sense, I was wondering if I was missing anything.

 

I think I will just pole it to where its getting pulled out (only 50 meters) and investigate/ pull apart the lower engine when it's out of the water 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

You Know It makes Sense.png

😁

 

If its seized would I have to buy another lower leg? Or could I just replace clean parts potentially? 

 

I could just get another outboard if needed but this Honda seems very good as far as the actual engine goes. 

 

Started and sounded great after just half a pull after 3 years 😂

Edited by Dockeroo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dockeroo said:

f its seized would I have to buy another lower leg? Or could I just replace clean parts potentially? 

 

Impossible to tell - most likely (no guarantee) is that when you split the gearbox, (if it has got water in it) drain and clean everything; it would probably re assemble OK. It depends on the level of corrosion (rust welding).

 

You may open it up and find clean oil.

 

What you can do as the 1st step is remove the gearbox oil filler plug (DON'T LOSE IT), then remove the Gear box drain plug (DON'T LOSE IT) and catch what comes out, you will see if there is any water in it,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Impossible to tell - most likely (no guarantee) is that when you split the gearbox, (if it has got water in it) drain and clean everything; it would probably re assemble OK. It depends on the level of corrosion (rust welding).

 

You may open it up and find clean oil.

 

What you can do as the 1st step is remove the gearbox oil filler plug (DON'T LOSE IT), then remove the Gear box drain plug (DON'T LOSE IT) and catch what comes out, you will see if there is any water in it,

Got it thanks 🙌🙌

2 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Also... has the petrol been in it for 3 years?

Yes, I only turned it on briefly, smoky at first but went away, I need to drain (or get a new?) The fuel tank and fish petrol, do you recommend any additives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Modern petrol looses it's oomph big time in 3 years. If it was a car it would barely drive under load. If there isn't much in there top it up, otherwise chuck and renew.

this does not mean your gear box hasn't seized, I know nothing about outboard gear boxes but old petrol is very not good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many moons ago a group of us bow hauled a WRG work flat from Lapworth to somewhere near Curdworth because neither of the two outboards we had would run reliably, despite endless tinkering. It then transpired that the petrol we were using had been donated by one of our number, who had drained it from the fuel tank of his deceased land rover, which had been sitting in his front garden for some years! After a trip to the nearest petrol station both outboards ran fine  and we completed the rest of the trip with much less effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Impossible to tell - most likely (no guarantee) is that when you split the gearbox, (if it has got water in it) drain and clean everything; it would probably re assemble OK. It depends on the level of corrosion (rust welding).

 

You may open it up and find clean oil.

 

What you can do as the 1st step is remove the gearbox oil filler plug (DON'T LOSE IT), then remove the Gear box drain plug (DON'T LOSE IT) and catch what comes out, you will see if there is any water in it,

Hang a bucket over the cavitation plate if you are gong to remove the gearbox filler and drain plug while the engine is still on the boat.

It will catch a dropped plug (ever so easy to drop one) and of course the oil. 

If you can get the boat to 90 degrees to the wall, the plugs are easier to get at.

Best though to remove the outboard to give the gearbox a thorough check, and change the impeller too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Modern petrol looses it's oomph big time in 3 years. If it was a car it would barely drive under load. If there isn't much in there top it up, otherwise chuck and renew.

this does not mean your gear box hasn't seized, I know nothing about outboard gear boxes but old petrol is very not good.

I was so annoyed I actually forgot to bring a petrol can with fresh petrol to test! So I need to do that also to rule that out, there was little petrol left at the bottom of the tank so could be this.

 

Regardless I have a service kit with impeller ect so will be servicing it anyway, but hopefully its the petrol.

 

When I checked the engine oil, it looked really good! Not very black at all, and the name of the boat was written underneath the engine cover, the rest looked good and clean.

I suspect the guy i brought it off had the engine serviced not long before he last used it, and apparently he didnt use it for the last year of having it so I bet it was working well 4 years ago just been sitting not used while in the water.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

been sitting not used while in the water

What, the boat or the outboard? Though as I said I now nothing much about outboards I'd bet my hat that water will have got into it if it's been left dipped in the water for 4 years without use. It may turn out to be a good thing that your old petrol didn't have the ooph to turn the gearbox. A grown up will be along to offer better advice I'm sure, though actually they did already up there. :) ^

Edited by Slow and Steady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Slow and Steady said:

What, the boat or the outboard? Though as I said I now nothing much about outboards I'd bet my hat that water will have got into it if it's been left dipped in the water for 4 years without use.

Yeh the motor left in the water, will find out when I check 😶

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

Yeh the motor left in the water, will find out when I check 😶

I had a mate who made his living reviving outboards like yours even if they'd been dropped completely overboard as long as it was fresh water. He didn't use a lot of parts, it was mostly take apart, clean and polish, reassemble. He started off buying them by the van load and was making a fortune last time I saw him. People tend to abandon them and get another after dropping them overboard.

Edited by Slow and Steady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do the answering the OPs question - or - how to check for old petrol, or a siezed gearbox.

 

 

 

Recovering a 'drowned outboard' is a regular event and not one to be worried about.

 

There is even a 'how to do it' in the manual for every (small) outboard I've owned.

 

Last Summer I was on my own lowering the outboard down from my boat into the Tender when "ooooops" it went splash in 20 feet of sea-water.

After a couple of hours of throwing, recovering, throwing, recovering ................ a grapnel we managed to hook it and bring it back to the surface.

 

Lay it on the dock wall and gave it a thorough soaking with fresh water, you need to get all of the salt out as soon as possible because it can etch into needle jets and bearings.

Drained the gear box, filled with fresh oil. drained and refilled the fuel tank and carb - pulled and pulled and pulled and pulled and it wouldn't start, after a bit more of a strip down, stripped the carb down and found a tiny, tiny drop of water in the main jet that was stopping the fuel flow.

Got it cleaned out, reassembled and away it went 1st pull.

It has done many hours since by getting us from anchor to the shore.

 

Our boat left of centre , tender on the beach.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1899632307_Screenshot(1236).png.53c2cccef4e91e7bd6771b73bcc8d3df.png

CAM00472.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Dockeroo said:

When I checked the engine oil, it looked really good! Not very black at all, and the name of the boat was written underneath the engine cover, the rest looked good and clean.

 

I am not sure that you realize the smaller outboards have their gearbox in the "pod" in front of the prop. This is filled with oil and I can assure you that the seals on the prop shaft and vertical drive shaft always eventually leak. Typically, such outboards use a pair of bevel gears free running on the propshaft with another fixed on the end of the vertical drive shaft. A  double ended dog cutch between the pair of bevel gears slides on splines on the propshaft. Sitting between the two gears for neutral, and locked into one of the two gears for ahead or astern.

 

Because the two gears spin in opposite directions they will more or less equal eachother's friction on the shaft so in neutral the prop should not turn with the engine running, or if it does, it should only do it slowly and not at a speed related to engine revs. The fact you say the prop spins in neutral suggests to me that one of the gears is stuck on the shaft so when you engage the other it locks the drive line.

 

Certainly try new petrol and possibly clean the carb first, but I would advise that you use the level plug part way up the leg and the drain plug in the "pod" to see if you have any water in the pod (gearbox). If you do it would be a good idea to take it apart for insection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am not sure that you realize the smaller outboards have their gearbox in the "pod" in front of the prop. This is filled with oil and I can assure you that the seals on the prop shaft and vertical drive shaft always eventually leak. Typically, such outboards use a pair of bevel gears free running on the propshaft with another fixed on the end of the vertical drive shaft. A  double ended dog cutch between the pair of bevel gears slides on splines on the propshaft. Sitting between the two gears for neutral, and locked into one of the two gears for ahead or astern.

 

Because the two gears spin in opposite directions they will more or less equal eachother's friction on the shaft so in neutral the prop should not turn with the engine running, or if it does, it should only do it slowly and not at a speed related to engine revs. The fact you say the prop spins in neutral suggests to me that one of the gears is stuck on the shaft so when you engage the other it locks the drive line.

 

Certainly try new petrol and possibly clean the carb first, but I would advise that you use the level plug part way up the leg and the drain plug in the "pod" to see if you have any water in the pod (gearbox). If you do it would be a good idea to take it apart for insection.

Thanks for the info, I'm going to take everything apart a fit a new seal as well.

I'm confused at what oil to use for the lower leg, in the service kit I got a tube of gear lube 80w-90, Is this the oil to use for the gearbox?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

Thanks for the info, I'm going to take everything apart a fit a new seal as well.

I'm confused at what oil to use for the lower leg, in the service kit I got a tube of gear lube 80w-90, Is this the oil to use for the gearbox?

 

I can't confirm for your actual make and model, but that would be typical. Not 1 but two seals, one behind the prop  and one on the vertical drive shaft, usually below the water pump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I can't confirm for your actual make and model, but that would be typical. Not 1 but two seals, one behind the prop  and one on the vertical drive shaft, usually below the water pump.

 

I have found that it is usually the one at the back of the prop that is damaged picks up grit which works its way in, or the common one is fishing line wrapped around the shaft and gradually deforms the seal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have found that it is usually the one at the back of the prop that is damaged picks up grit which works its way in, or the common one is fishing line wrapped around the shaft and gradually deforms the seal.

 

Agreed, but if he is changing the impeller he has to split the leg so might as well change both. If the Honda is anything like the Mercs. It might be a good idea to get a new "funnel piece" that helps get the water pump outlet pipe into the engine itself. The Merc. ones used to harden over time and then break up as you tried to align the water pipe, drive shaft to their relevant holes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Agreed, but if he is changing the impeller he has to split the leg so might as well change both. If the Honda is anything like the Mercs. It might be a good idea to get a new "funnel piece" that helps get the water pump outlet pipe into the engine itself. The Merc. ones used to harden over time and then break up as you tried to align the water pipe, drive shaft to their relevant holes.

 

 

Don't remember ever having a Mercury, but had an assortment of Evinrude, Yamaha, Force, Johnson, Mariner, Honda and once (big mistake) a Suzuki.

 

 

A Single Mariner 75 hp on the Benetau

Sea Horse 6001.jpg

 

A Single 85hp Force on the Bayliner

Wet Wet Wet 2002.jpg

 

Twin 50's Evinrudes  on a Del Quay Dory

 

 

Sea Bird 3001.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.