Josephine- DIY replating and full fitout of a 70s Hancock and Lane narrowboat

[harrybsmith]

Right..

 

I'd been contemplating a DIY scratch built shell for quite a while and decided that Summer 2022 was the time to start it. That was until March 2022 came around and the steel to do it basically doubled in price, which somewhat spannered my budgeting. The Wednesday before Easter weekend while feeling a bit dejected I decided to have a browse on Ebay at project boats, and saw one that had a new baseplate but looked rough in every other aspect. Went to see it, and by Easter Sunday I owned 50ft of problem. 

 

 

She's been through 4 owners since arriving in the yard after being Section 8'ed, sinking on the tow back twice and being a huge pain. The first owner stripped it out, the second fitted half a baseplate, the 3rd the other half then the 4th cut a huge hole in the side and sold it to me for a whacking loss after injuring his back doing it. 

 

 

 

My plans are quite drastic, I'm aiming for a full replate below the water line (It's like the surface of the moon!) and some pretty heavy rework of the cabin top, the exact style of which will be revealed in due course 

 

 

 

Oh, and just a caveat, I will try to keep this build thread updated, but if it goes quiet then don't be too surprised, I'm probably sticking a boat back together 

[dmr]

Big project, boat is quite a nice shape, bike is interesting.

[Canal321]

Interesting project. Looks more like a Harborough Marine to me. What engine will be going in ?  . 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Canal321 said:

Interesting project. Looks more like a Harborough Marine to me. What engine will be going in ?  . 

 

 

I thought the same. Never seen a H&L looking like that.

 

Spectacular pit/hole though! 

 

 

[magnetman]

Harborough Marine or Fernie. 

 

Definitely not H&L. 

 

I want the orange liferaft.

[harrybsmith]

7 hours ago, dmr said:

Big project, boat is quite a nice shape, bike is interesting.

 

I thought the same, I didn't fancy ending up with a work flat with a cabin on like some DIY builds 

 

Bike is a similar ethos to the boat actually, a humble 70s Raleigh Twenty shopper upgraded with modern parts

 

6 hours ago, Canal321 said:

Interesting project. Looks more like a Harborough Marine to me. What engine will be going in ?  . 

 

Canalplan boat registry has it down as a H&L, I think the photo makes it look more window-smashery than it really is. 

 

Plan is a Lister SR3 with a few twists (one of them being it won't sound like throwing a bag of spanners down stairs) 

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

I thought the same. Never seen a H&L looking like that.

 

Spectacular pit/hole though! 

 

 

 

The pit is unfortunately one of many! Hence the decision to replace 

[harrybsmith]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Harborough Marine or Fernie. 

 

Definitely not H&L. 

 

I want the orange liferaft.

 

Possibly? I quite like the lines on Harborough shells so no huge loss

 

I can find out who owns the life raft if you want? All I know is it's implausibly heavy

[Mad Harold]

1 hour ago, harrybsmith said:

 

I thought the same, I didn't fancy ending up with a work flat with a cabin on like some DIY builds 

 

Bike is a similar ethos to the boat actually, a humble 70s Raleigh Twenty shopper upgraded with modern parts

 

 

Canalplan boat registry has it down as a H&L, I think the photo makes it look more window-smashery than it really is. 

 

Plan is a Lister SR3 with a few twists (one of them being it won't sound like throwing a bag of spanners down stairs) 

 

The pit is unfortunately one of many! Hence the decision to replace 

You are very brave taking that on!

I had a a severe wallet attack looking at the photos.

Best of luck with it. 😃

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

 

Possibly? I quite like the lines on Harborough shells so no huge loss

 

I can find out who owns the life raft if you want? All I know is it's implausibly heavy

The raft would be brilliant for a floating garden. 

 

I didn't know they were heavy though. Perhaps the foam core is waterlogged. Thanks for the offer to investigate. 

 

As for the boat the curved T stud on the front deck and the angled chines on the sides are Harborough Marine features. Hancock and Lane didn't have those chines and their T studs were flat not curved. 

 

They do swim nicely the old Harborough Marine hulls so it should be economical on diesel. 

 

 

"SR3 with a few twists" 

 

Are you thinking of boxing it in and using an air to water heat exchanger or something? Maybe additional forced ventilation.

That would be pretty cool. I had a SR2 under me for my first two years boating in a Hancock and Lane cruiser stern and hells teeth was it loud ! 

 

I reckon with some clever design work you could get a calorifier warmed up somehow which would be useful. 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by magnetman

[Tracy D'arth]

Lovely weed cutter bow below water.

Plenty of windows, there is a big expense.

Its a Harborough almost certainly, does/did it have the piped drains from the well deck to the stern bilge? Chequer plate bow cant?

Bow anodes too far forward to do anything.

[magnetman]

Worth considering hardwood frames and sealed units for those window cutouts rather than the more ordinary aluminium frame things. 

 

Or plates with large portholes in the middle. 

[harrybsmith]

26 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

You are very brave taking that on!

I had a a severe wallet attack looking at the photos.

Best of luck with it. 😃

 

It's a huge project, but all things are relative, it's less of a project than starting with nowt! (It was also very cheap so there is plenty of budget left)

 

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The raft would be brilliant for a floating garden. 

 

I didn't know they were heavy though. Perhaps the foam core is waterlogged. Thanks for the offer to investigate. 

 

As for the boat the curved T stud on the front deck and the angled chines on the sides are Harborough Marine features. Hancock and Lane didn't have those chines and their T studs were flat not curved. 

 

They do swim nicely the old Harborough Marine hulls so it should be economical on diesel. 

 

 

 

 

No worries! Hmmm certainly not impossible it's mis-registered, and yeah looks like it'll swim well

 

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Lovely weed cutter bow below water.

Plenty of windows, there is a big expense.

Its a Harborough almost certainly, does/did it have the piped drains from the well deck to the stern bilge? Chequer plate bow cant?

Bow anodes too far forward to do anything.

 

The main expense with the window holes is going to be the steel plate to fill em in! You can basically ignore what's there above the gunwhales, a lot will survive but be altered radically.

 

Yes on the cant, and definitely the anodes are too far forward, there's also a hole about 1" from one so clearly not done it's job! (I think it's rusted from the inside out there though so hardly surprising 

[Psychalist]

On 21/05/2022 at 07:13, harrybsmith said:

Bike is a similar ethos to the boat actually, a humble 70s Raleigh Twenty shopper upgraded with modern parts

So, new fork, bottom bracket shell and... back end? 24in wheels? Nice job.

 

Good luck with the boat and take care with your back.

[harrybsmith]

On 21/05/2022 at 09:30, magnetman said:

 

"SR3 with a few twists" 

 

Are you thinking of boxing it in and using an air to water heat exchanger or something? Maybe additional forced ventilation.

That would be pretty cool. I had a SR2 under me for my first two years boating in a Hancock and Lane cruiser stern and hells teeth was it loud ! 

 

I reckon with some clever design work you could get a calorifier warmed up somehow which would be useful. 

 

 

 

Something like that, and some forced air, but not for cooling purposes... 

 

9 hours ago, Psychalist said:

So, new fork, bottom bracket shell and... back end? 24in wheels? Nice job.

 

Good luck with the boat and take care with your back.

 

Cor you know your bikes... new forks, rethreaded BB shell, brazed on different rear dropouts and front mech hanger. 24" 520 wheels, tyres cost more for it than some cars! There's an awesome scene around these old shoppers, we meet up all over the country and go on group rides.

 

Funny you should mention taking care of one's back, that's what the next post will be about...

[MtB]

2 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

24" 520 wheels, tyres cost more for it than some cars!

 

 

Yes the 24" wheels fooled me too or I'd have recognised it as a Shopper. In fact I ruled out it being a Shopper as the wheels looked too big and I nearly asked what bike it was too! 

 

 

[Mike Adams]

Good luck with your project - I took on something similar in the 1970's except it had no cabin. The problem is that it will always be a 50 year old boat of very ordinary character and should you wish to sell it that would be the benchmark. I don't think I would take on this now simply because of the cost of parts and materials even if your labour is free. The cost of fitting it out is going to be the same as if you bought a new hull but the value would be far less and limited by the age and hull even if you cut out the sides and fit new plates. I wouldn't recommend overplating given the current state as if there are any holes the plates will rot in between and then separate. The upside is you may not need to worry about the RCD although I think there may still be some implications. You will also find that every that everything that comes with the boat is non functional or worn out and will need replacing.

[harrybsmith]

44 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Good luck with your project - I took on something similar in the 1970's except it had no cabin. The problem is that it will always be a 50 year old boat of very ordinary character and should you wish to sell it that would be the benchmark. I don't think I would take on this now simply because of the cost of parts and materials even if your labour is free. The cost of fitting it out is going to be the same as if you bought a new hull but the value would be far less and limited by the age and hull even if you cut out the sides and fit new plates. I wouldn't recommend overplating given the current state as if there are any holes the plates will rot in between and then separate. The upside is you may not need to worry about the RCD although I think there may still be some implications. You will also find that every that everything that comes with the boat is non functional or worn out and will need replacing.

 

Those were my exact thoughts and why I originally wanted to do a new shell. However, one upside of her is that it came with nearly all the steel to do the replating included in the sale. The boat cost around ⅓ the value of the steel that was with it! 

 

Another thing is that most 70s boats are in this sort of state or not far off, and if no-one restores them then they'll be lost. I think it's brilliant that metal ex carrying NBs see so much attention, but there's history in other areas too that's worth preserving 

[Psychalist]

11 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

Cor you know your bikes... new forks, rethreaded BB shell, brazed on different rear dropouts and front mech hanger. 24" 520 wheels, tyres cost more for it than some cars! There's an awesome scene around these old shoppers, we meet up all over the country and go on group rides.

You did the conversion I never got around to. Now, my near original spec Stowaway sits in the bow.

[harrybsmith]

While I'm young and therefore tend to think I'm unbreakable,  this of course isn't the case. I could see that the most likely cause of this project grinding to a halt was actually through injuring myself rather than giving up (or hopefully not running out of money, I've done some sums...) 

Thus this post is all about mechanical handling. Hopefully if I pull this restoration off then this thread can act as a bit of a guide to anyone thinking about doing similar, so I'm going to try to chuck on some "behind the scenes" stuff not directly relates to the build but contributing to it. Anyway, first job was to buy a welder big enough to tackle it

 

An Oxford 180A was collected, unloaded and checked over (having been barn stored for 30 years). Pretty scary wiring, pleased I opened it up then ran a multimeter round it! (For anyone servicing one in future, the threads are Whitworth, this one was missing a couple of bolts and looked to have been "got at" so I pulled it open to check, and replaced the missing bits) 

 

Next the engine turned up on a pallet. It's pretty obvious I'm in no immediate need for an engine just yet, but a friend was getting rid of it and it was the right thing for the job. It'll sit in my parent's garage until winter, when it'll get a rebuild and some "upgrades". 

 

To get it off the pallet, the pallet first had to be lifted to get the crane underneath

 

 

Then lift the engine off and bung it in a corner 

 

 

Next was to head to the boat and set up a gantry to lift the plates into place. As there seems to be some appreciation for 2 wheeled transport here's a picture of my wood collection method....

 

 

And the setup in place. 4x2 battens ratchet strapped to the roof rails, with 3-1 pulleys in place to lift the steel sheets into place. As this thread is about 3 weeks behind reality save you the suspense, it works brilliantly as a system. I can reach both ropes at the same time and simply pull them in to lift the steel with minimal effort

 

That's all for tonight folks, next time we'll be fitting a square plate into a trapezoidal hole (that the previous owner cut...). All the best!

[MtB]

Hey that's a different bike! 

[David Mack]

57 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

 

I once carried a concrete lintel home like that.... but I decided it might be safer to walk the bike than to ride it!

[Psychalist]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

Hey that's a different bike! 

I also fancied a Moulton (not as a cargo bike though). The fancier ones are quite a bit of money.

[harrybsmith]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

Hey that's a different bike! 

 

Indeed! One of "a few" I seem to have acquired 

 

12 hours ago, David Mack said:

I once carried a concrete lintel home like that.... but I decided it might be safer to walk the bike than to ride it!

 

I've done this a few times with lengths of wood, it's always felt safe but I think a lintel would be a different ball game! 

 

9 hours ago, Psychalist said:

I also fancied a Moulton (not as a cargo bike though). The fancier ones are quite a bit of money.

 

This one was swapped for an Airframe I had (terrible) and has been badly "duluxed". I'll possibly restore it over winter, but probably should focus on getting the boat done! 

[MtB]

9 hours ago, Psychalist said:

I also fancied a Moulton (not as a cargo bike though). The fancier ones are quite a bit of money.

 

The first ever bike with full suspension, IIRC.

 

 

[Chris Lowe]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The first ever bike with full suspension, IIRC.

 

 

Moulton Mini was my first bike