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sourcing a recon engine for new widebeam


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We are considering having a 65x12 Widebeam built by Colecraft. For anyone unfamiliar with their process, they have a list of priced items that you can pick and choose from so they can tailor your own level of fit out. The engines they recommend range from 75-90 HP. Price wise, fitting one ranges from 14,000-17,000. I thought perhaps this would be an area to save a few grand. Plenty of people I know with boats of a similar size have 52-56 HP engines, typically the (slightly) cheaper boat builders provide Canaline engines as standard and I know it works out cheaper. 

 

We really don't mind going with a reconditioned or remanufactured engine if it can save on the pennies, but in this area I am having trouble with research. Can anyone recommend engines or companies that might fit one? A few years back we had a reconditioned BMC 1.8 fitted to our narrowboat for around 5 or 6K, though I realise this engine isn't suitable!

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Poppin said:

We are considering having a 65x12 Widebeam built by Colecraft. For anyone unfamiliar with their process, they have a list of priced items that you can pick and choose from so they can tailor your own level of fit out. The engines they recommend range from 75-90 HP. Price wise, fitting one ranges from 14,000-17,000. I thought perhaps this would be an area to save a few grand. Plenty of people I know with boats of a similar size have 52-56 HP engines, typically the (slightly) cheaper boat builders provide Canaline engines as standard and I know it works out cheaper. 

 

We really don't mind going with a reconditioned or remanufactured engine if it can save on the pennies, but in this area I am having trouble with research. Can anyone recommend engines or companies that might fit one? A few years back we had a reconditioned BMC 1.8 fitted to our narrowboat for around 5 or 6K, though I realise this engine isn't suitable!

 

 

 

As a commercial builder the boat will be (must be) built to the RCR requirements - the RCR only allows the use of 'approved' engines so whatever you look at ensure it meets the RCR requirements for emissions etc.

 

You cannot just put in 'any old engine'.

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Seems a bad place to start penny pinching... if I may say so. Do the colecraft prices include fitting the engine not just the price of the engine. If so your saving may not be that great...

 

I suppose you could try Key diesels (part of RCR) for prices for recon units. Do your research though as key have a shall we say a variable reputation. 

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Just now, jonathanA said:

Seems a bad place to start penny pinching... if I may say so. Do the colecraft prices include fitting the engine not just the price of the engine. If so your saving may not be that great...

 

I suppose you could try Key diesels (part of RCR) for prices for recon units. Do your research though as key have a shall we say a variable reputation. 

 

 

Thats :

RCR = River Canal Rescue, not

RCR = Recreational Craft Regulations (as in you must use the correct engine, cable, pipes etc etc, all of which are specified)

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My view is buy a boat a few years old (which saves sadding yet another boat to the already congested waterways and saving making 30 tonnes of new steel from a global warming pov), then get the engine that comes with it reconditioned. If it needs it. 

 

FAR more ecologically sound course of action.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Poppin said:

We are considering having a 65x12 Widebeam built by Colecraft. 

 

 

Which waterway are you thinking of using such a large vessel? Or is it mainly going to be sat in a marina? Choice of engine might depend on intended cruising range to some degree although I have taken my widebeam on several tidal rivers and only have a 55hp engine but I'm 8ft shorter than your prospective boat. 

 

If you were intending to use the boat on the southern canals you do realise you'll be hated for having such a large vessel? I agree with MtB that you should start by looking for an existing boat rather than add yet another with all the associated environmental impacts.

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Remember that fitting an engine into a bare shell is a lot of work. The quote may include the cost of supplying & fitting the shaft & prop. It will include the engine electrics, fuel system and cooling system. I bet your 1.8 price was just for taking the old engine out, dropping the new one in and connecting the cables, pipes and hoses. That is far less time-consuming than fitting an engine into a new shell.

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There are very few engine reconditioners left and  parts for a recon are scarce. Try buying pistons from Ferrari Piston Services for example! It is simply not a paying proposition in the modern world.  Most boat engines are derived from construction type plant.  The OEM can supply a new robot built factory replacement engine for these machines much less expensively than a labour intensive (and thus expensive)  recondition.  The other issue will be whether there is anything left in the engine to make it worth reconditioning.  Modern designs,  machine tools, and techniques are such that build tolerances are very tight and there is not much spare metal when the engine is new.  Once one part is too worn to go on, many of the others will be worn out too.  Vintage engines are different, and expensive,  but they do not comply with the RCR ( regulations).

 

That means that very few modern engine "reconditions" are at all well done.  Be worried, be very worried   about buying a De Vilbiss recon. New spray paint is cheap!

 

Have you looked at the base price for a  marinised engine from people like Beta, Barrus (Shire not the Shanks)or even Vetus?  That will give you an idea of what Colecraft want to install the engine and what you might 'save' if you were able to do all the installation work yourself.  Then get a quote to install from someone like Redshaws or JG Marine.

 

The other possibility is to buy a new base engine and marinise it yourself, if you have the skills.  You will have  to buy the marinisation parts from someone like Beta, or Vetus which will be dearer than buying them as  part of a new engine, but you should be able to save the labour costs of assembly.  Kubota and Mitsubishi are popular base engines.  Having modified the engine, the warranty will be your problem.

 

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3 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Having modified the engine, the warranty will be your problem.

 

 

I would imagine the OP might also have a problem illustrating the engine meets RCD emission standards too. 

 

Such an engine probably would meet the standards, but there might be no paperwork trail proving it. 

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I'd talk to Colecraft, although they're one of the larger narowboat/widebeam builders, they are a small company that does custom builds I'm sure they'd be happy to fit a smaller engine than the ones on their recommended list.

I'd imagine they would be less happy fitting an engine you supply, especially a reconditioned unit, as they won't be familiar with it so it will take longer and may require fittings or other additional components they don't have to hand.

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16 hours ago, Poppin said:

Price wise, fitting one ranges from 14,000-17,000.

So if you don't pay the £14-17k, what else, besides an engine don't you get? Do you in fact get a boat designed as a purely static houseboat, so no prop or propshaft, no stern tube, no silencer or exhaust, no skin tanks or cooling water plumbing, no engine controls, no starter battery, no rudder, perhaps no engine beds, perhaps not even a counter stern?

 

As others have said, if you want a different engine from the standard offering talk to the boatbuilder and see what else they would be willing to supply and fit.

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I spent a few grand on a recon engine for a Mondeo about 20 years ago. It failed after less than 1,000 miles. 

Obviously there are some satisfied customers out there, and this is strictly a personal view based on a single experience, but I wouldn't even consider a recon engine.

If I really had to save money I'd go for a 57ft shell (which will be easier to handle as well), and install a less powerful but brand new engine, maybe 50-55bhp. 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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