National Lottery Fund NBTA Mental Health Support

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Dentists, I just have to pay full whack when ever I need.

I might put myself on a waiting list somewhere central.

 

 

The dentist we use in Tamworth currently has vacancies for NHS patients.

 

PM me if you want contact details.

[Slow and Steady]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

I did mean that saving money in the short term can prove more expensive in the long term, as in so many other areas (health/social care, Sure Start, PFI, prisoner rehab, selling off government buildings and leasing them back -- the list is endless).

 

But the UK government -- especially this one -- only cares about saving money *now* to make them look good, if they spend the money instead then by the time the benefit is apparent they probably won't be in power any more...

Such is our first past the post system.

[Thomas C King]

1 hour ago, Slow and Steady said:

Unqualified GPs prescribing brain warping drugs because the wait for a councillor is 6 months or more.

 

The other side of it is that, even if the NHS could afford counseling for everyone that needs it, there aren't enough counselors with capacity. I've recently been looking for private counseling and many simply had no capacity.

 

The cost, as you've already pointed out, is higher as well. But not only higher, so high that I would guess there is no scenario where this country could afford it for everyone who needed it. That is based on private and accredited counseling seeming (from my searches) to start at £60 per session, often £120 for someone with more experience.

[Slow and Steady]

3 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

 

The other side of it is that, even if the NHS could afford counseling for everyone that needs it, there aren't enough counselors with capacity. I've recently been looking for private counseling and many simply had no capacity.

 

The cost, as you've already pointed out, is higher as well. But not only higher, so high that I would guess there is no scenario where this country could afford it for everyone who needed it. That is based on private and accredited counseling seeming (from my searches) to start at £60 per session, often £120 for someone with more experience.

Actually I'm in two minds about counselling anyway - it didn't exist in any meaningful way 40-50 years ago - you had to just get on with it, which is really what the ultimate aim of counselling is!

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Actually I'm in two minds about counselling anyway - it didn't exist in any meaningful way 40-50 years ago - you had to just get on with it, which is really what the ultimate aim of counselling is!

First time I ever heard of it was when I was pensioned off from my job in 1989. It was not called counselling quite so much then? More recently I would have been labelled with PTSD, but again that wasnt the in thing back then. One of my little girls does mental health counselling for children and young adults, she must be mad 🤪

[Thomas C King]

6 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Actually I'm in two minds about counselling anyway - it didn't exist in any meaningful way 40-50 years ago - you had to just get on with it, which is really what the ultimate aim of counselling is!

 

I don't think the past should guide today's medicine! Many seem unable to "get on with it", so ignoring costs I don't know why you wouldn't use evidence-based counseling if you could. Obviously, if you can fix it yourself then you don't need it, but then I'd question whether there is a mental disorder in the first place.

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

 

I don't think the past should guide today's medicine! Many seem unable to "get on with it", so ignoring costs I don't know why you wouldn't use evidence-based counseling if you could. Obviously, if you can fix it yourself then you don't need it, but then I'd question whether there is a mental disorder in the first place.

Most people with problems dont seem to know they have them? It is only when it is explained in some detail that it often becomes clear.

[Athy]

This is a very interesting discussion - but a couple of provocative political comments have crept in. Please bear in mind that this topic isn't in the Politics section.

[Dav and Pen]

Our old GP thought we had to be mad crawling along in muddy ditches anyway. One could soon get depressed when owning old boats but a few pints sorted it out. We have a granddaughter who trained as a mental health nurse and spent years counseling and trying to help the areas  addicts and Alcoholics getting called out at all hours. Now she is at an NHS clinic working 9-4 counseling the latest fad of trans youngsters. 

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Athy said:

This is a very interesting discussion - but a couple of provocative political comments have crept in. Please bear in mind that this topic isn't in the Politics section.

How do you keep politics out of a discussion where they're the main cause of the problem?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

How do you keep politics out of a discussion where they're the main cause of the problem?

 

Rather than be your usual 'clever clogs' why not just suggest a move to the politics section?

 

Strewth.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[Arthur Marshall]

31 minutes ago, IanD said:

How do you keep politics out of a discussion where they're the main cause of the problem?

I don't think our government system is the root cause of mental illness, any more than it of of physical illness. Over the years, scientists have discovered the causes of many things people used to die of - folk didn't just "get on with it" , they just died.  That's why, because more stuff can be cured, hospitals need more and more money. It's a lot simpler just to say that under a certain level of income, your life expectancy is 40 rather than 80. It's trying to balance benefit with cost that's the problem - pretending it's being "woke" or "politically correct" to argue for a reasonable level of treatment available for everyone doesn't help.

As the NHS is now definitely heading for insurance based privatisation, and a high proportion of GP surgeries are already run by US agencies, it'll be interesting for my kids to see how it pans out. I suspect, like the vote, treatment will very much depend on your income level, as it does in the States.

Politics isnt the cause of the problem, but it's politicians' job to try to find an answer. What you want the answer to be should affect the way you vote, though usually it doesn't.

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think our government system is the root cause of mental illness, any more than it of of physical illness. Over the years, scientists have discovered the causes of many things people used to die of - folk didn't just "get on with it" , they just died.  That's why, because more stuff can be cured, hospitals need more and more money. It's a lot simpler just to say that under a certain level of income, your life expectancy is 40 rather than 80. It's trying to balance benefit with cost that's the problem - pretending it's being "woke" or "politically correct" to argue for a reasonable level of treatment available for everyone doesn't help.

As the NHS is now definitely heading for insurance based privatisation, and a high proportion of GP surgeries are already run by US agencies, it'll be interesting for my kids to see how it pans out. I suspect, like the vote, treatment will very much depend on your income level, as it does in the States.

Politics isnt the cause of the problem, but it's politicians' job to try to find an answer. What you want the answer to be should affect the way you vote, though usually it doesn't.

 

The government doesn't cause mental illness -- well, except in some people, especially recently -- but it is responsible for the underfunding and inadequate treatment of it (including counselling) which makes the problem much worse than it could be. And moving towards a privatised/insurance-based system like the USA -- which has one of the most expensive and ineffective health services in the world, with many people (especially the mentally ill) completely falling through the net -- is the way the current government is trying to push the UK.

[Feeby100]

Some of you should be bloody ashamed of your self the comments  

 

mental health is real and is hell to live with so if you don’t know what you chatting about then don’t 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Feeby100

[Arthur Marshall]

8 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

Some of you should be bloody ashamed of you self the comments 

mental health is real and is hell the like with so if you don’t know what you chatting about then don’t 

It is interesting that the first five contributions to this thread are all in the "mental illness is a big joke, let's have a sneer" camp.  I'm with Feeby.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It is interesting that the first five contributions to this thread are all in the "mental illness is a big joke, let's have a sneer" camp.  I'm with Feeby.

As am I, and most of the more recent posters... 🙂

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It is interesting that the first five contributions to this thread are all in the "mental illness is a big joke, let's have a sneer" camp.  I'm with Feeby.

 

The issue seemed to be that it was the NBTA that got the money to help with boaters mental health issues rather than boaters mental health issues per sae (?sp). At least that is how I read it.

 

When we were boating regularly we met some very lonely and very sad individuals with issues. Some were obviously rooted in excessive alcohol and possibly drug consumption.

 

There is a clear need to somehow help and support these folks.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The issue seemed to be that it was the NBTA that got the money

 

EXACTLY.

[Thomas C King]

11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think our government system is the root cause of mental illness

 

Policies or system? If you mean policies, then I can't see how you can separate those policies that affect wealth (or lack of) and mental health. Even a simple example, gambling addiction - we know that poverty affects cortisol levels, and raised cortisol causes people to make short-term and often irrational decisions in the face of long-term consequences.

 

In response to Athy, and for politics and this thread. I don't know how you can post anything about NBTA without it being political, isn't NBTA a political group? It seems to be to me. I'm not saying we should allow politics in this part of the forum, but there seems to be a grey area where canal life and politics coincide. Maybe just live and let live in those cases, but keep non-canal politics out of here for the sanity of some people.

[Feeby100]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

EXACTLY.

Sorry but they was taking the o out of mental illness full stop 

[Arthur Marshall]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

EXACTLY.

"A team of mental health practitioners" are getting the money. This rather implies they are trained professionals, not just random members of the NBTA. The project is "supported" by them. Nowhere does it say that some untrained bod from an unmoving boat is going to come round and sort your brains out.

It's obviously an odd concept to some here, but there are quite a few intelligent and highly qualified people living on boats for one reason or another. Some may like to use their expertise to return something to their community.

There are a lot of prejudiced, blinkered and ignorant boat owners too, but of course you'd never guess that from reading this forum.

Perhaps you should read real words, rather than what you make up in your head. Be quite a change, that.

[frangar]

26 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

"A team of mental health practitioners" are getting the money. This rather implies they are trained professionals, not just random members of the NBTA. The project is "supported" by them. Nowhere does it say that some untrained bod from an unmoving boat is going to come round and sort your brains out.

It's obviously an odd concept to some here, but there are quite a few intelligent and highly qualified people living on boats for one reason or another. Some may like to use their expertise to return something to their community.

There are a lot of prejudiced, blinkered and ignorant boat owners too, but of course you'd never guess that from reading this forum.

Perhaps you should read real words, rather than what you make up in your head. Be quite a change, that.

Trained in what tho?? In my experience of mental health services it’s not patient care that’s for sure. 

[Tony1]

 

This topic brings to mind a comment made to me by a very interesting lady boater in her mid 60s who I spoke to last summer, and who had moved to the UK from South Africa a couple of years ago, in order to live on a narrowboat. 

She said that most of the solo liveaboards she had met so far seemed to be 'damaged', which I understood to mean that they were suffering from some degree of unhappiness- and in the worse cases, a clear mental disorder. 

Coming from a person who had lived in a society that had itself gone through years of extreme and deadly violence, it initially struck me as an odd thing to say- but of course she was coming at it as a relative newcomer to UK society, which I think gave her a more objective viewpoint. 

My own response was to say personally, I didnt feel all that damaged- apart from the emotional bruising of a painful relationship breakup a few years ago- and I hadn't then met enough solo boaters to form an opinion. 

But in the year since then, I have met or observed a number of liveaboards who have clearly been suffering from mental disorders. One chap I met a few months ago refused to even admit the existence of covid-19, for example, and he held firmly to the belief that the royal family were alien lizards who had taken human form. 

My response (that any alien lizard clever enough to travel here would have chosen a better-looking human body) went unheeded, and nothing I said could persuade him from his beliefs- many of which had been gathered via youtube and far-right conspiracy theorist websites. 

The sad thing is that if I had pointed this new counselling service out to him, he would almost certainly have refused to use it, so certain was he about these impossibly unlikely beliefs. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Tony1

[Rambling Boater]

8 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

But in the year since then, I have met or observed a number of liveaboards who have clearly been suffering from mental disorders. 

 

 

 

Just maybe they are suffering as a result of the mental disorder in this world we were brought up in?

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Rambling Boater

[Tony1]

11 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

 

Just maybe they are suffering as a result of the mental disorder in this world we were brought up in?

 

 

I absolutely agree.

I personally think it is highly likely that in many cases, mental disorders are a direct result of an individual's treatment by parents and by society.

There are many people who would have ended up much more happy and stable if society had been more forward thinking, and kinder to the poor and disadvantaged. And there are lots of those who could now be helped enormously to regain a more stable mental situation, if only the resources were available. 

But support services of this sort were slashed to the bone during the austerity measures after 2010, and the country is now so bankrupt that there is zero chance of those support service being reinstated within the next decade, even if a government got into to power who regarded the NHS as a priority. 

It seems as if the cupboard is bare, and we can look forward to nothing but more poverty and reduced NHS provision for the foreseeable future.

Those who need non-critical mental health support are probably going to face a struggle.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Tony1