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I use an old dog trailer for big shops. I found it bounced around when empty, once flipped on it's side. I do wonder whether to carry a couple of gallons of water to stabilise it, empty them out once loaded.

A thread on the Pedelecs forum told of the demise of someone with a heavy rucksack on his back, a badger lay in wait and ran out before him, the weight of the rucksack led to a seriously dislocated wrist when he hit the deck.

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3 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

I use an old dog trailer for big shops. I found it bounced around when empty, once flipped on it's side. I do wonder whether to carry a couple of gallons of water to stabilise it, empty them out once loaded.

A thread on the Pedelecs forum told of the demise of someone with a heavy rucksack on his back, a badger lay in wait and ran out before him, the weight of the rucksack led to a seriously dislocated wrist when he hit the deck.

 

 

As much as I don't like to think about it, there is a decent chance I'm going to come off the bike at some point, and I was uncomfortably aware that whatever bad things happened to me in that event would almost certainly be worse if I had a heavy pack on my back.

One of the reasons I'm ok with a 15mph (assisted) speed limit on the ebike is that I reckon any potential injuries will be lessened at a slower speed. 

And I hadnt even begun to consider the perils of homicidal badgers. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

 

You do realise that saying 'e-scooter' here is like saying 'Jehovah' in a Monty Python film...?

But before you are ritually stoned to death, I will admit that I am taking a keen interest in these things myself. I get sore feet if I walk much more than a mile or two (possibly early signs of arthritis or something similarly unpleasant), and I would like to do some extended trips to European capitals next year, but I am concerned about having to cover miles of sightseeing on foot, and it has occurred to me that a small, compact folding escooter (that fits into a rucksack) might be just the job to get around big European cities and see the sights. 

I'm not sure whether wearing a hoodie and mowing down random pensioners is going to be a mandatory requirement when e-scooters are legalised in the UK, or if that will still be an optional activity, but I'm happy to go with the flow on that one.

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

We must AYHYK. Why were you persecuted? Is it persecution to be prosecuted for a wrongdoing? Will you offer to resign or are you a Tory?

 

 

Because I only broke the law in a limited and specific way....

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19 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Because I only broke the law in a limited and specific way....

Eh? specifically, you limited your mad ax wielding episode to one old lady?

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25 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Eh? specifically, you limited your mad ax wielding episode to one old lady?

 

It was an oblique reference to the way our government considers it ok to break international law provided it only breaks it in a "limited and specific way".

 

So t they can do it, why can't I?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

How many report crashes? Think about this only hired ones are legal the rest won't report because they shouldn't be on the road anyway!!!

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

 

You do realise that saying 'e-scooter' here is like saying 'Jehovah' in a Monty Python film...?

But before you are ritually stoned to death, I will admit that I am taking a keen interest in these things myself. I get sore feet if I walk much more than a mile or two (possibly early signs of arthritis or something similarly unpleasant), and I would like to do some extended trips to European capitals next year, but I am concerned about having to cover miles of sightseeing on foot, and it has occurred to me that a small, compact folding escooter (that fits into a rucksack) might be just the job to get around big European cities and see the sights. 

I'm not sure whether wearing a hoodie and mowing down random pensioners is going to be a mandatory requirement when e-scooters are legalised in the UK, or if that will still be an optional activity, but I'm happy to go with the flow on that one.

 

 

I am hoping they scrap them we watched an accident with one at the weekend, the scooter was wrecked the users less so! They carried the wreckage away quite funny really or it was to us

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27 minutes ago, peterboat said:

How many report crashes? Think about this only hired ones are legal the rest won't report because they shouldn't be on the road anyway!!!

I am hoping they scrap them we watched an accident with one at the weekend, the scooter was wrecked the users less so! They carried the wreckage away quite funny really or it was to us

 

Recent reports are suggesting escooters may be legal within months, subject to ebike conditions like 15mph max speed, 250 or maybe 350 watts max power, only to be ridden on roads, etc.

The antics of a few hundred chavs on escooters causing a public nuisance will not stop the legalisation, regardless of our opinions either way. 

The bigger picture is that there will be millions of journeys taken on these vehicles every year, which means a vast reduction in carbon emissions- plus reduced pressure on the fuel supply at a potentially critical time.  

Nobody likes the idea of violent chavs roaming around on these things, but in truth they can do exactly the same shenanigans now on mountain bikes anyway, if that is their thing. 

Banning an entire class of vehicle because of a few hundred badly behaved users would be like banning cars because a few thousand people are killed each year by them (or in them) because of bad drivers. 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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So long as we're talking about legally restricted e-bikes or e-scooters (15mph maximum) it's difficult to see what the justification for banning or restricting these is based on speed, since most cyclists can easily reach 15mph.

 

The problem of people riding them like idiots and injuring themselves or others is the same as it is for pushbikes, there are always some idiots who behave badly and give everybody else a bad name.

 

If the reason is that lots of inexperienced people are buying them who don't know or ignore the rules of the road/path, then why should they be treated any different to pushbikes? Yes there's something to be said for some kind of licensing/cycling proficiency test (for all of them), but this would be expensive to administer and impossible to enforce without also having some kind of registration/license number/insurance scheme -- which CART have enough trouble with on 35000 boats, how would this cope with 30M bikes? (without a huge increase in costs comparable to the admin/enforcement cost of car insurance).

 

Given that all of these (pushbikes, e-bikes, e-scooters) get people off cars (and probably public transport) into a much greener mode of transport, I'd have thought the right approach is to encourage them but try and enforce the 15mph limit by fining anyone offering modding services or advice and crushing illegal ones (with a nice chunky fine for the owner, or maybe points on their driving license) if they're caught?

Edited by IanD
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7 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Recent reports are suggesting escooters may be legal within months, subject to ebike conditions like 15mph max speed, 250 or maybe 350 watts max power, only to be ridden on roads, etc.

The antics of a few millions of chavs on escooters causing a public nuisance will not stop the legalisation, regardless of our opinions either way. 

The bigger picture is that there will be millions of journeys taken on these vehicles every year, which means a vast reduction in carbon emissions- plus reduced pressure on the fuel supply at a potentially critical time.  

Nobody likes the idea of violent chavs roaming around on these things, but in truth they can do exactly the same shenanigans now on mountain bikes anyway, if that is their thing. 

Banning an entire class of vehicle because of a few hundred badly behaved users would be like banning cars because a few million old folks/people are killed each year by them (or in them) because of their couldn't care who they maim or kill attitude 

 

 

Altered it it Tony to reflect real attitudes and numbers 

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I have an e-bike. It's re-opened the cycling world for me die to knackered legs. Great, fun piece of kit.

One climb I do is a 2 1/2 mile category 3, averaging about 4 MPH on the way up (getting uncomfortably close to Yorkshire a the top.)

Coming down again, nearer 30 MPH, which is technically illegal on an e-bike I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

So long as we're talking about legally restricted e-bikes or e-scooters (15mph maximum) it's difficult to see what the justification for banning or restricting these is based on speed, since most cyclists can easily reach 15mph.

 

There's nothing to stop e-cyclists doing more than 15mph, if they have the peddling energy to top the powered-only speed. But to lift the powered-speed limit is dangerous. The roads are not that good, as far as the surface goes. On the standard bike I have, with 28" wheels, it pays to use the same routes and memorize the potholes and rough bits. Someone tearing along without a powered-speed restriction is asking for a visit to the hospital. It's quite different, when you have to exert all the energy to ride a bike. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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17 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Altered it it Tony to reflect real attitudes and numbers 

 

A quick google search shows these figures for 2020:

"The Department for Transport's (DfT) figures show that there were 484 casualties involving e-scooters in 2020, of which one person was killed, 128 were seriously injured and 355 slightly injured."

 

And for cars: 

"There were 1,460 fatal casualties on Britain's roads in 2020, down 17% from 2019. There were 20,102 serious casualties, down 21% from 2019"

 

No idea about the total numbers of cars vs scooters on the roads, so that need to be taken into account, but 1 death versus 1460 deaths certainly seems a compelling figure, at least on the face of it. 

Thats also not including the reduced deaths that would happen as a result of there being fewer car journeys. 

 

 

 

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Electric bikes are heavy and slow.

if you live on a boat and charge them on fossil fuel  especially diesel or petrol it's really not green.


Secondly a bit like born again bikers there is a user risk if speed is too high so 15 mph is a  negotiated compromise.

 

Personally I love steaming by ebikes when roads and traffic permits, but then Im well used to going extremely quick when safe.

 

Having said that im just about to buy an ebike and build a solar charging system. 
Out notional home being at the bottom of a 20% hill with the option of 22%  as the alternative  route into town means a quick trip in to town involves  proper equipment and sweat. Instead i will cruise in at 15 mph in my jeans. ( and still do 45 on the way home)

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Electric bikes are heavy and slow.

if you live on a boat and charge them on fossil fuel  especially diesel or petrol it's really not green.


Secondly a bit like born again bikers there is a user risk if speed is too high so 15 mph is a  negotiated compromise.

 

Personally I love steaming by ebikes when roads and traffic permits, but then Im well used to going extremely quick when safe.

 

Having said that im just about to buy an ebike and build a solar charging system. 
Out notional home being at the bottom of a 20% hill with the option of 22%  as the alternative  route into town means a quick trip in to town involves  proper equipment and sweat. Instead i will cruise in at 15 mph in my jeans. ( and still do 45 on the way home)

 

 

 

 

Still greener than the alternatives (car, or even bus/train) if your legs are knackered and can't cope with a pushbike, or leastways not over the distances and hills you need to travel, or don't want to arrive at work (or home) dripping in sweat... 😉

 

(I haven't got one because I ride a pushbike for exercise, but would very seriously consider one if I was commuting or for longer-distance rides)

Edited by IanD
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12 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Electric bikes are heavy and slow.

if you live on a boat and charge them on fossil fuel  especially diesel or petrol it's really not green.

 

 

I have plenty of solar so I'm only using fossil fuels to charge for maybe 3 or 4 months of the year. 

To try to put a rough estimate on fuel usage:

My current bike will cover at least 20 miles on its 10Ah battery, and my alternators will put that 10Ah back into the boat batteries in about 6 mins. I imagine that will use about a tenth of a litre of diesel, so it probably costs about 15p to recharge the bike at current prices, and maybe 8p when/if prices get back to normal. 

 

PS- the brompton electric is around 17kg, so whilst heavier than most normal bikes, it manages to be manually portable when needed, e.g. up stairs at stations etc.

Only problem is it's pretty expensive, and most of the more budget models are well over 20kg, so they can be a handful to lug around. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

PS- the brompton electric is around 17kg, so whilst heavier than most normal bikes, it manages to be manually portable when needed, e.g. up stairs at stations etc.

 

 

Amazing how ,many folks seem to think that a 20kg anchor cannot be lifted over the side of the boat, yet others think a 17kg bike can be managed up the railway station steps.

I wonder which is actually the most phsically demanding ?

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Amazing how ,many folks seem to think that a 20kg anchor cannot be lifted over the side of the boat, yet others think a 17kg bike can be managed up the railway station steps.

I wonder which is actually the most phsically demanding ?

 

If you compared lifting something that weighs 17kg (and is designed to be lifted/carried) off the ground high enough to walk up steps with lifting an awkwardly shaped 20kg anchor high enough to get it out of a well deck and over the side, I'm sure you'd be able to answer your own question... 😉

Edited by IanD
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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Amazing how ,many folks seem to think that a 20kg anchor cannot be lifted over the side of the boat, yet others think a 17kg bike can be managed up the railway station steps.

I wonder which is actually the most phsically demanding ?

 

I've never used an anchor so I cant speak to the difficulty of that, but my old ebike was 26kg, and as a full size MTB that folded in half, that was quite tricky at times.

I used to keep it on the stern, but a few times I lifted it from the bank into the cratch, and trying to lower a bulky and awkward 26kg weight whilst reaching out from the bank felt like it was risky for my back. 

 

The current one is 22kg so its still a beast but its slightly smaller, so more compact when folded. I put it in the cratch when I have guests cruising with me, so one of things I now do is wait until the guest shows up and get them to help me manhandle it into the cratch. That said, in the longer term some sort of lightweight hoist might be a safer bet to avoid any back strain. 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Amazing how ,many folks seem to think that a 20kg anchor cannot be lifted over the side of the boat, yet others think a 17kg bike can be managed up the railway station steps.

I wonder which is actually the most phsically demanding ?

 

You probably wouldn't have many kilos of anchor chain attached to the bike ...

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1 hour ago, Boaty Jo said:

I have an e-bike. It's re-opened the cycling world for me die to knackered legs. Great, fun piece of kit.

One climb I do is a 2 1/2 mile category 3, averaging about 4 MPH on the way up (getting uncomfortably close to Yorkshire a the top.)

Coming down again, nearer 30 MPH, which is technically illegal on an e-bike I suppose. 

Only illegal under e power, not with gravity or your legs. Are you talking Blackstone Edge? 

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1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

Electric bikes are heavy and slow.

if you live on a boat and charge them on fossil fuel  especially diesel or petrol it's really not green.


Secondly a bit like born again bikers there is a user risk if speed is too high so 15 mph is a  negotiated compromise.

 

Personally I love steaming by ebikes when roads and traffic permits, but then Im well used to going extremely quick when safe.

 

Having said that im just about to buy an ebike and build a solar charging system. 
Out notional home being at the bottom of a 20% hill with the option of 22%  as the alternative  route into town means a quick trip in to town involves  proper equipment and sweat. Instead i will cruise in at 15 mph in my jeans. ( and still do 45 on the way home)

 

 

 

Slow???? It goes as fast as you make it go, within the limit set on the control panel. ( I can increase the limit when riding in the grounds of my mansion if I want). I often travel faster under power than with my little legs, especially up hills. 

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