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LadyG

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I managed to sail blissfully past the last winding hole, it's 5 furlongs back, boat is irregular in astern , what about breasting up with someone going t'other way?

I have spotted a potential tow boat.

but I'd not ask if it's going to be hard to steer

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13 minutes ago, howardang said:

Here's a golden opportunity to practise steering while going astern. 5 furlongs is not too far and it will be a skill that once you have learned it will be there for life.

 

Howard

I've been sailing backwards for forty years, but this one is not predictable and there are quite a few boats moored.

I've tried full revs astern, low revs astern, but it won't go where I point, best if winds are strong so I can  be 'wind assisted'

12 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

Is it always irregular when going astern? I find it really changes depending on wind and current. Sometimes easy, other times not.

Oh yes, best with steady wind, worst if canal is shallow, I don't mind if there are no boats moored up, but there are quite a few.

Edited by LadyG
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My boat is only steerable forwards, so reversing is a right pain. 

If I need to reverse a few hundred yards I put it into reverse around tickover speed, and I lead it backwards without having to pull much. But that's only doable if there are no boats moored along the towpath to get in the way of me towing, and I sometimes have to stop the boat bumping into the bank.

 

A guy I met not long after starting out told me about the standard reversing technique of using forward throttle to point the boat in the direction you need, as you do when winding, and then once you've got it pointing the right way, going into reverse to cover some distance.

In reverse my boat will veer off in random directions no matter what way the tiller is held, so before too long I have to go into forward gear again in order redirect the boat, and then when its lined up I go back into reverse and cover more distance. 

 

When reversing past moored boats in narrower section this technique can be a bit tricky for a relative newbie like myself, but its the only way I've found to work so far.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've been sailing backwards for forty years, but this one is not predictable and there are quite a few boats moored.

I've tried full revs astern, low revs astern, but it won't go where I point, best if winds are strong so I can  be 'wind assisted'

Every hull has an optimum speed and power setting in reverse which changes with wind and water movement so its never an exact science.

But with practice you can get quite good at it in still conditions.

 

If you have to reverse along way, a heavy tyre on a rope off the front stud will keep the bow somewhere in the middle of the cut while you steer the stern with small but early movements of the rudder. At the right speed you will feel the pull on the rudder as you alter course slightly.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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Just when I dumped the tyre I've carried from my early days on the Aire and Calder, sigh.

I'l wait till it's all quiet.

 

Edited by LadyG
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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Just when I dumped the tyre I've carried from my early days on the Aire and Calder, sigh.

 

Oh, if you are like me I am sure you could find a spare tyre quite near by......................................................................

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34 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I managed to sail blissfully past the last winding hole, it's 5 furlongs back, boat is irregular in astern , what about breasting up with someone going t'other way?

I have spotted a potential tow boat.

but I'd not ask if it's going to be hard to steer

 

Keep going  until you get to the next one?

 

If you're back at the top of Barrowford, there's a little inlet on the offside just by the bend that just allows a 60ft boat to wind - you don't need to go back two bridges.

Screenshot_20220509-110620.png

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The easiest solution is if you can get someone going the other way to allow you to butty up - we did this recently near Cowroast with a boat that needed to reverse quite a way, through locks etc, to get to a water point. Just keep your boat's engine ticking over in neutral with the tiller in line with the boat - if you both need to stop quickly a burst by you in forward will help considerably. Only dodgy bit, don't get in the way of the tiller, because if the pair of you go aground the tiller could easily throw you off, or possibly break something you use every day!

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You can always cheat - like I do!

Method is to have crew member stood on front bow with the long boat pole.

I put into reverse at tickover, and all the steering is done only from the bow with the pole used as a punt.

I just stand on the stern ready to fend off from any contact if needed, and keep the rudder straight.

The most important thing is to keep the reverse speed constant for the front steerer to be able to keep sole control of the direction of travel.

We can reverse for miles without any stress using this method, as well as complex manoeuvering.

You do have to have a crew member you can trust implicitly of course, and they can rapidly get very competent at the task.

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2 hours ago, Rebotco said:

You can always cheat - like I do!

Method is to have crew member stood on front bow with the long boat pole.

I put into reverse at tickover, and all the steering is done only from the bow with the pole used as a punt.

I just stand on the stern ready to fend off from any contact if needed, and keep the rudder straight.

The most important thing is to keep the reverse speed constant for the front steerer to be able to keep sole control of the direction of travel.

We can reverse for miles without any stress using this method, as well as complex manoeuvering.

You do have to have a crew member you can trust implicitly of course, and they can rapidly get very competent at the task.

 

Or you can do the same with a bow thruster... 😉

 

[ducks and runs for cover]

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Great chance to practice... apart from the moored boats. Personally I'm rubbish at this but get lucky sometimes.

But, a friend with a 60x12ft widebeam can do it after going on a course where he was made to reverse for several miles and I watched a narrowboat in the marina go a long way to the pumpout reversing all the way just for the fun of it and he had it perfect, he even did a couple of 90 deg turns with no faffing about - reverse gear all the way - no stopping and correcting at all. I was very jealous. Neither of these boats was anything special, the widebeam was a cheapy with very short swims.

 

So, damn it, it's a skill thing. I can sail a dinghy backwards no bother at all, maybe I should install a centre board.

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4 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Great chance to practice... apart from the moored boats. Personally I'm rubbish at this but get lucky sometimes.

But, a friend with a 60x12ft widebeam can do it after going on a course where he was made to reverse for several miles and I watched a narrowboat in the marina go a long way to the pumpout reversing all the way just for the fun of it and he had it perfect, he even did a couple of 90 deg turns with no faffing about - reverse gear all the way - no stopping and correcting at all. I was very jealous. Neither of these boats was anything special, the widebeam was a cheapy with very short swims.

 

So, damn it, it's a skill thing. I can sail a dinghy backwards no bother at all, maybe I should install a centre board.

 

Apart from depending heavily on the boat, I've also found that it's a mistake to try and go gently astern with not much throttle, it's better to give it a bit more welly and get more steerage way, even more so than when going ahead.

 

Possibly because when you're going forwards the prop pushes a cylindrical stream of water right past the rudder to be deflected and give steerage, but when going astern the prop sucks in water from the general direction of the stern and blows it out against the hull where it does nothing -- especially in a lot of narrowboats which have a big gap between prop and rudder, much bigger than normally recommended in hull designs...

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7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Apart from depending heavily on the boat, I've also found that it's a mistake to try and go gently astern with not much throttle, it's better to give it a bit more welly and get more steerage way, even more so than when going ahead.

 

Possibly because when you're going forwards the prop pushes a cylindrical stream of water right past the rudder to be deflected and give steerage, but when going astern the prop sucks in water from the general direction of the stern and blows it out against the hull where it does nothing -- especially in a lot of narrowboats which have a big gap between prop and rudder, much bigger than normally recommended in hull designs...

One of those things isn't it - I did it once for about 200m dead straight, no problems at all, I felt pretty smug as I had an audience. You're right that getting some way on is the trick, it's that initial part when you are getting up to speed that either goes well or doesn't ! If only I could remember whether I did that gently or gave it some welly... no doubt lucky with the wind too, it was a sheltered spot.

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4 hours ago, LadyG said:

I've been sailing backwards for forty years, but this one is not predictable and there are quite a few boats moored.

I've tried full revs astern, low revs astern, 

You’ve just had it fitted, give them a ring and tell them it’s not working going backwards and you want your money back. Will make no difference to you, as your used to falling out with people that do work on your boat.

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7 hours ago, LadyG said:

I managed to sail blissfully past the last winding hole, it's 5 furlongs back, 

🏇You sound more like Tony McCoy after taking the wrong “Canal Turn” in the Grand National. 5 Furlong, how many miles is that?😂🏇🏇🏇

Edited by PD1964
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7 hours ago, Mike Tee said:

The easiest solution is if you can get someone going the other way to allow you to butty up - we did this recently near Cowroast with a boat that needed to reverse quite a way, through locks etc, to get to a water point. Just keep your boat's engine ticking over in neutral with the tiller in line with the boat - if you both need to stop quickly a burst by you in forward will help considerably. Only dodgy bit, don't get in the way of the tiller, because if the pair of you go aground the tiller could easily throw you off, or possibly break something you use every day!

However, if everybody adopted this technique, reversing ability would be lost, and all for a little perseverance. It’s not rocket science after all!! It should be something that all people who call themselves boaters should be able to do.

 

Howard

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40 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

🏇You sound more like Tony McCoy after taking the wrong “Canal Turn” in the Grand National. 5 Furlong, how many miles is that?😂🏇🏇🏇

I was about you post similar but then I found this 

 

". In some English canals navigated by narrowboats, distances are measured in furlongs and miles."

 

It  is apparently to do with the fact that narrowboats can be horse drawn.

 

Bit disappointed actually as I quite fancied a bit of pedantry.

 

Edited by reg
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