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Tiller bearing, Liverpool Boat 2005


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45 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I've never taken mine off but I thought the swan neck and rudder stock was all one piece? The rudder slides over the rudder stock and from memory is fixed with two pinch bolts and one through bolt. Or in my case the bolts and a little bit of welding top and bottom. It's going to be interesting trying to get the rudder off!

Ah! On mine the rudder shaft/stock is basically a shaft with a taper. The Actual rudder blade  is welded to it. At the top the shaft goes through  the bearing and the Swan neck fits onto the taper with bolt to pull the two together. Shades of a car track rod end.

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11 hours ago, Slim said:

Ah! On mine the rudder shaft/stock is basically a shaft with a taper. The Actual rudder blade  is welded to it. At the top the shaft goes through  the bearing and the Swan neck fits onto the taper with bolt to pull the two together. Shades of a car track rod end.

That is how most sensible caring boat fabricators do it.  Liverpool Boats had to find a more inconvenient and less reliable way.

Or the taper is under the counter on top of the shorter rudder post.

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12 hours ago, Slim said:

Ah! On mine the rudder shaft/stock is basically a shaft with a taper. The Actual rudder blade  is welded to it. At the top the shaft goes through  the bearing and the Swan neck fits onto the taper with bolt to pull the two together. Shades of a car track rod end.

 

Well Liverpool boats might have done it the same way, I don't know.

55 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That is how most sensible caring boat fabricators do it.  Liverpool Boats had to find a more inconvenient and less reliable way.

Or the taper is under the counter on top of the shorter rudder post.

 

So if you haven't actually taken a rudder off a Liverpool Boat how do you know that Liverpool Boats had to find a more inconvenient and less reliable way?

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32 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Well Liverpool boats might have done it the same way, I don't know.

 

So if you haven't actually taken a rudder off a Liverpool Boat how do you know that Liverpool Boats had to find a more inconvenient and less reliable way?

Taken dozens off, the bolts break regularly. Its a dogs breakfast way of fitting a rudder.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Taken dozens off, the bolts break regularly. Its a dogs breakfast way of fitting a rudder.

 

Ok I misunderstood as you said "Or the taper is under the counter on top of the shorter rudder post", so it sounded like you weren't sure how the swan neck was fitted to the rudder stock.

Edited by blackrose
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48 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Ok I misunderstood as you said "Or the taper is under the counter on top of the shorter rudder post", so it sounded like you weren't sure how the swan neck was fitted to the rudder stock.

My ambiguity.

 

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44 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Ok in an attempt to eliminate any ambiguity, how is the swan neck on a Liverpool Boat fitted to the rudder stock? It would be useful for me to know.

They are welded together. There have been several different assemblies used over the years. There are other shell builders who are now doing it the same way presumably because its cheap.

 

The top part of the shaft cannot be removed from the swan neck. The rudder has to be removed from the split shaft to which it is bolted. Then the shaft will slide up and out.

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The original Springer set up for the blade to stock was very similar, IIRC, and equally prone to the rudder blade becoming disconnected from the stock. The Springer rams head was separate from the stock and held to that by two bolts.

 

The advantage of the scousers method to the builder is that they don't have to worry about how the rams head is secured and aligned to the rudder stock.  No tapers to machine or fabricate,  just weld it up and adjust the blade after fitting.

 

N

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You can buy this as a fully stainless steel bearing in a stainless housing( but they are expensive), our as a stainless bearing in a plastic housing (a lot cheaper but check the bolt centres)or by the stainless bearing insert only and fit it in your existing housing (a cheaper option).

The stainless bearing unit has a lower load capacity so is not ideal in what is effectively a non rotating duty.

The round self aligning plastic bearing is a better option if you can modify it to fit your 2 bolt mounting ( assuming you can get it in the bore you need)

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If you are going to use the industrial 2 bolt cast iron housing/steel bearing then avoid the cheap Chinese option as they do not last long, These are usually made with oversize mounting holes and a lighter weight casting.

What ever bearing you use needs to be regreased with stern tube grease. This is water resistant unlike the lithium grease within  the bearing as supplied ( lithium grease absorbs moisture = corrosion)

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Thanks, I was looking at the stainless unit I posted the link to above which was 55 quid + vat. Price is not a problem but when I asked the company they said they're is still some ferrite in the bearing. Whether that means it's not grade A3 or A4 stainless or whether the internal balls themselves aren't stainless I've no idea, but I'm starting to think that a plain bronze bush in the same 2 bolt stainless housing might be better. Or would bronze or brass wear quicker?

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Phosphor bronze is the material to use but it would require regular regreasing.

You would have to have a bush machine to the same basic size as the bearing insert with the OD spherical so the self aligning function works as it is very unlikely the bearing mounting is a 90 degrees to the shaft.

Given the current price of bronze and machining you would probably be paying at least £150 plus vat 

The plastic standard spherical unit would be a much better option.

Your bearing supplier is correct, in my experience of using them in a local food factory they have a very limited life span. This is for the top quality units not a cheap Chinese one ( that is what you would get for the low figure you have been given).

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23 hours ago, adrianh said:

 

What ever bearing you use needs to be regreased with stern tube grease. This is water resistant unlike the lithium grease within  the bearing as supplied ( lithium grease absorbs moisture = corrosion)

How do you get the old grease out?

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