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Tiller bearing, Liverpool Boat 2005


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Does anyone know what size bearing I should get for this please or is it just a case of measuring ID and OD? My rudder is going to come off on the slipway in a couple of months to repaint the rudder stock tube so I may as well replace the bearing. Thanks

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To buy a replacement bearing only you need to know type, ID, OD and thickness.  Type will be deep groove ball bearing, because it has to carry some vertical load.  

 

Should be easy to swap out if  it is all dismantled.  Make sure the grease nipple on the housing/flange is working before you reassemble it all.

 

N

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Posted (edited)

Thanks. I'll post a picture of the flange tomorrow.

 

The problem is I need to get hold of the bearing ahead of time as once I'm on the slipway and have taken it out to measure the thickness it's too late. I thought some other LB owners might know the bearing dimensions, these possibly being the most numerous mass produced canal boats ever. 

 

On the subject of the grease nipple, I assume that's just a stagnated part as it will probably need replacing too? Does anyone use sealed bearings or is that not a good idea?

Edited by blackrose
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Used this on 2005 liverpool

Ebay

 

UCFL Flanged Metric Pillow Block Self Lube Bearing 2 Bolt Flange - HIGH QUALITY

35mm

£11.99 + Postage

 

 

Screenshot_20220508-083639_eBay.jpg

Edited by reg
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Whilst out of the water it may be worthwhile checking out the health of the bottom cup as 17years of wear may mean it may need building up.

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2 hours ago, reg said:

 

 

 

Used this on 2005 liverpool

Ebay

 

UCFL Flanged Metric Pillow Block Self Lube Bearing 2 Bolt Flange - HIGH QUALITY

35mm

£11.99 + Postage

 

 

Screenshot_20220508-083639_eBay.jpg

 

Thanks, that looks like mine. I'll check the dimensions of the rudder stock and the centres between those two bolt holes.

1 hour ago, reg said:

Whilst out of the water it may be worthwhile checking out the health of the bottom cup as 17years of wear may mean it may need building up.

 

Thanks, how do they build up the inside of the cup, or is it a case of welding on an additional half inch length of tube of the correct diameter?

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Quicker and cheaper to cut the old cup off and fit a new piece of tube.  Wear will also take place on the rudder stock where it fits into the cup.  That may need to be  built up and ground to fit into the new cup.

 

However, if it is steering OK ( not rattling too much)  and the wear is not much you can safely leave it.  Mine has done 30 years and is still OK.

 

N

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5 hours ago, reg said:

Whilst out of the water it may be worthwhile checking out the health of the bottom cup as 17years of wear may mean it may need building up.

We used to routinely fit new bottom bushes when boats were blacked and had a selection made up and ready to be adjusted for the diameter of the rudder stock, so yes, take a look and change it for a new one if in doubt.

ETA Steel tube outer with a brass insert.

Edited by Stilllearning
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4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Thanks, that looks like mine. I'll check the dimensions of the rudder stock and the centres between those two bolt holes.

 

Thanks, how do they build up the inside of the cup, or is it a case of welding on an additional half inch length of tube of the correct diameter?

I make them the other way up, stainless pin on the skeg and a phosphor bronze bush on the shaft. The grit then doesn't get trapped to grind the bearing away. 

While its out, put new bolts in the rudder where it is in the split shaft and really tighten them. These often come loose and eventually break.

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29 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

While its out, put new bolts in the rudder where it is in the split shaft and really tighten them

This definitely.

 

Mine got stretched over time primarily caused i think by  the rudder pressing  flat against the rear lock cill.

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9 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

I'd be tempted to keep it simple and use a phosphor bronze bearing or seeing as it's slow moving a lead bronze bearing.

And how simple would it be to knock one up with a housing at the correct angle before you pull what's there to bits. I guess if the new £12 bearing lasts 15 years he will be happy

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I make them the other way up, stainless pin on the skeg and a phosphor bronze bush on the shaft. The grit then doesn't get trapped to grind the bearing away. 

While its out, put new bolts in the rudder where it is in the split shaft and really tighten them. These often come loose and eventually break.

 

Thanks for the tip on the inverted cup. I'm actually going to take the opportunity to fit a new tapered rudder including new stainless bolts.

 

This is mine from 2005. Are they 2 welded on studs. They look like 10mm dia, and how likely are they to snap when I unscrew the nuts?

 

IMG_20220508_201312.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Thanks for the tip on the inverted cup. I'm actually going to take the opportunity to fit a new tapered rudder including new stainless bolts.

 

This is mine from 2005. Are they 2 welded on studs. They look like 10mm dia, and how likely are they to snap when I unscrew the nuts?

 

IMG_20220508_201312.jpg

I think you'll be fine, the paint has protected what we can see and the threads look in good order.

These things are not really designed for this job though - more suitable for stationary rotating shaft farm machinery. Yours looks like my 4 bolt version - nothing to keep the rain out and the limited tiller movement doesn't help to spread the grease around. I was looking at making it some kind of umbrella attached to the stock. Nearest thing I could find after a quick look was this - clamp the top, cut off most of the bottom.

Flexible Adaptors

https://www.cotswoldkoi.co.uk/product/flexible-adaptors/?attribute_size=4"+-+2"

 

Edited by Slow and Steady
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11 hours ago, reg said:

 

 

 

Used this on 2005 liverpool

Ebay

 

UCFL Flanged Metric Pillow Block Self Lube Bearing 2 Bolt Flange - HIGH QUALITY

35mm

£11.99 + Postage

 

 

Screenshot_20220508-083639_eBay.jpg

 

I can't seem to get a measurement of less than 32mm on the rudder stock using my verniers, but the choice is 30mm or 35mm. Am I measuring dirt and paint and is it likely to be 30mm or do I have a different diameter rudder stock?

1 minute ago, Slow and Steady said:

 I was looking at making it some kind of umbrella attached to the stock. Nearest thing I could find after a quick look was this - clamp the top, cut off most of the bottom.

Flexible Adaptors

https://www.toolstation.com/flexible-adaptor-clay-to-pvc/p54240?store=I6&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=_dc&pcrid=558023894541&pkw=&pmt=&gclsrc=ds

 

 

Seems like a good idea, thanks.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Slow and Steady said:

Wrong link, I edited while you were posting.

Stock will be tapered for the tiller so maybe it's 35mm where the bearing is?

 

Ok thanks.

 

Edit: Just thinking, what's the point of the rubber boot to stop rain water dripping onto the bearing from above when water comes up through the rudder stock tube and soaks the bearing from below?

Edited by blackrose
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Posted (edited)

I think I'm going to try to find one of these things in stainless. I can't see the point of using a mild steel bearing as it can't last very long with water pumping through it.

Edited by blackrose
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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I think I'm going to try to find one of these things in stainless. I can't see the point of using a mild steel bearing as it can't last very long with water pumping through it.

Some use a plastic/man made substance ball in place of a bearing Warstock 1-1/2" Dia Std Unit | Midland Chandlers 

Warstock 1-1/2" Dia Std Unit

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On 08/05/2022 at 08:39, reg said:

 

 

 

Used this on 2005 liverpool

Ebay

 

UCFL Flanged Metric Pillow Block Self Lube Bearing 2 Bolt Flange - HIGH QUALITY

35mm

£11.99 + Postage

 

 

Screenshot_20220508-083639_eBay.jpg

That looks identical to the bearing and flange on 2002 Liverpool Boats I'm moored alongside.  What I don't understand is the way the Swan neck  is attached to the rudder shaft. The shaft comes up through the bearing into what appears to be a 4" diameter by 2" casting into which the Swan neck is welded. No sign of a spline, taper or anything. Sorry if I'm hi-jacking but I'm intrigued 🤔 

 

PS. lovely evening sitting in the cockpit with an even lovelier bottle  of wine🍾

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I've never taken mine off but I thought the swan neck and rudder stock was all one piece? The rudder slides over the rudder stock and from memory is fixed with two pinch bolts and one through bolt. Or in my case the bolts and a little bit of welding top and bottom. It's going to be interesting trying to get the rudder off!

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On 08/05/2022 at 12:25, BEngo said:

Quicker and cheaper to cut the old cup off and fit a new piece of tube.  Wear will also take place on the rudder stock where it fits into the cup.  That may need to be  built up and ground to fit into the new cup.

However, if it is steering OK ( not rattling too much)  and the wear is not much you can safely leave it.  Mine has done 30 years and is still OK.

 

N

You can buy new cups. Aquafax used sell them for about £12

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