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I am guessing the weather has been pretty dry these last few weeks around Daventry. That the cabin bilge is filling up suggests somewhere in the water system, rather than a leaking window, or other route for rain water.

I've had a stealth water system leak with no cycles of pump running. In this case it was from the body of the pump itself. I am guessing from the low pressure side.

Jen

 

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Thanks all for your comments, they were really useful.

 

Apologies for not replying sooner, but I have spent the weekend taking apart cupboards, steps, anything that looks like it might have a pipe behind it.

Drilled discrete holes in the floor to establish how far 'up' the boat the water goes, put fluorescent dye in the bath to test the waste and pump, and hoovered the water out of the cabin bilge at the stern several times.

 

As each examination revealed nothing, or at least nothing significant, it was looking like the leak was probably coming from the PRV on the calorifier (which I found - why do these bits of kit have to be built in so that you have to contort yourself in ways you are not designed to move?).

 

Plan is to put a length of tubing onto the PRV and then into a container until this can be permanently routed over the side via a skin fitting.

 

Did find a leaky bathroom trap, so that will go and be replaced with tubing to the skin fitting rather than another trap. Presumably it has been leaking since i bought the boat, although no water was showing in the bathroom cupboard, or at least only a bit. Would that have produced the large amount hoovered out of the bilge?

 

The bilge level does seem to have levelled off, and apart from continuing to hoover and sponge out the water in the bilge as it percolates down until it is dry, I don't have any other candidate at present.

 

I take your point MtB that looking for a leak all day, not finding it yet still having to charge is not what anyone wants - no-one needs that kind of aggravation.

But, speaking to one of the staff at the marina, they are very short staffed and even if they wanted to they couldn't at present 🙂

 

So I got to examine lots of areas on my boat that I hadn't before, and found some things I had no idea existed - mainly extra bloody square pin sockets (they must breed).

 

Thanks again everyone for you help, it is a terrifying prospect to suddenly find water up to the floor in the bedroom and have no idea from where or what to do about it.

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On 28/04/2022 at 13:25, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I am guessing the weather has been pretty dry these last few weeks around Daventry. That the cabin bilge is filling up suggests somewhere in the water system, rather than a leaking window, or other route for rain water.

I've had a stealth water system leak with no cycles of pump running. In this case it was from the body of the pump itself. I am guessing from the low pressure side.

Jen

 

It has been , dry for ages. I’m sure you are right Jen, it’s not from rainfall. 
 

it sounds like it’s rather a significant amount of water if the bilges are levelled off and continue to need hoovering?
 

Are you needing to fill up your water tank often? Can you look round/ under your tank and is is dry round there? As the pump isn’t going off too much and the bilges continue to need hoovering Its likey to be a leak from the water tank area  or possibly a small hole in your boat. If you aren’t needing to fill up with water often it could be water from the canal. 

What age is your boat? 
 

Avoid showers if you can use the marinas one and using much water -  if your water does need filling up despite not using much you are leaking water that’s coming from inside the boat. 
 

If still you can’t see the leak I would think that the marina would prioritise your boats problem if you went back to them and explained that you  keep needing to hoover out water and it keeps filling up, and you are really worried it may sink (even though it is very unlikely!) 

 

Is there anyone else around that you can talk to? Boaters are usually friendly and only too happy to help out in these situations as well. 

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2 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

it sounds like it’s rather a significant amount of water if the bilges are levelled off and continue to need hoovering?
 

Co-incidentally a couple of hours after I last posted on this topic I realised my boat had taken on a significant list. A quick check showed that water was leaking from a connection into the pump pre-filter. It took a full hour of pumping out with a Whale 220 Gulper to get most of the water out. After that it was about 25 litres with the wet and dry. When I left the boat 2 days later water was still leaching out of the concrete slab ballast. I know for a fact that it will take weeks to dry out. 

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25 minutes ago, Slim said:

Co-incidentally a couple of hours after I last posted on this topic I realised my boat had taken on a significant list. A quick check showed that water was leaking from a connection into the pump pre-filter. It took a full hour of pumping out with a Whale 220 Gulper to get most of the water out. After that it was about 25 litres with the wet and dry. When I left the boat 2 days later water was still leaching out of the concrete slab ballast. I know for a fact that it will take weeks to dry out. 

The screw in plastic filter strikes again, I have seen loads of these split and leak. Being before the pump they only announce their failure when the bilge fills up.

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The screw in plastic filter strikes again, I have seen loads of these split and leak. Being before the pump they only announce their failure when the bilge fills up.

Do you think its the pump vibration that kills them of they are connected by hose, I can see them being stressed if they a on a ridged pipe system evert time the pump fires up.

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5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do you think its the pump vibration that kills them of they are connected by hose, I can see them being stressed if they a on a ridged pipe system evert time the pump fires up.

The suggesting was made that it is the hydraulic shock when a tap closes that cracks them.

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5 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

it sounds like it’s rather a significant amount of water if the bilges are levelled off and continue to need hoovering?
 

Are you needing to fill up your water tank often? Can you look round/ under your tank and is is dry round there? As the pump isn’t going off too much and the bilges continue to need hoovering Its likey to be a leak from the water tank area  or possibly a small hole in your boat. If you aren’t needing to fill up with water often it could be water from the canal. 

What age is your boat? 

Thanks Stroudwater1

Not sure exactly what you mean when you say that the bilges are levelled off - still getting my head around some of the terminology 🙂

 

The water does still need hoovering but not because it is filling up to the original level, it just seems to percolate through the ballast to need clearing every day or so - I should have explained that better.

 

My water tank holds ~150 gallons and seems to last about 2 weeks or so. The boat is 28 years old. I have drilled holes stern of the water tank and all seems dry so unless the bilge doesn't clear, I don't think it's coming from there - although it wouldn't hurt to take a look if possible.

 

To be honest, I am surprised that a leaking sink trap could have produced the amount of water in the bilge that it supposedly has, although it has been like that for a while. Still not 100% that is the cause, but running out of candidates - small hole in the hull is frankly alarming, but the bilges were dry in the past after I bought the boat, even though there was evidence of water damage in the past, so that, hopefully, rules that out somewhat.

 

No shower at the marina unfortunately! Chap at the marina has taken a brief look and will keep contact with me over it. Best i can do at the moment is assume it's the sink and keep hoovering I think

 

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5 minutes ago, RickS said:

The water does still need hoovering but not because it is filling up to the original level, it just seems to percolate through the ballast to need clearing every day or so

 

Empty the watertank to trim the boat nose high, and the water will drain noticeably faster to the stern bulkhead where you are removing it.

 

Just don't empty it down the basin with the leak ... :D

 

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20 minutes ago, RickS said:

Thanks Stroudwater1

Not sure exactly what you mean when you say that the bilges are levelled off - still getting my head around some of the terminology 🙂

 

The water does still need hoovering but not because it is filling up to the original level, it just seems to percolate through the ballast to need clearing every day or so - I should have explained that better.

 

My water tank holds ~150 gallons and seems to last about 2 weeks or so. The boat is 28 years old. I have drilled holes stern of the water tank and all seems dry so unless the bilge doesn't clear, I don't think it's coming from there - although it wouldn't hurt to take a look if possible.

 

To be honest, I am surprised that a leaking sink trap could have produced the amount of water in the bilge that it supposedly has, although it has been like that for a while. Still not 100% that is the cause, but running out of candidates - small hole in the hull is frankly alarming, but the bilges were dry in the past after I bought the boat, even though there was evidence of water damage in the past, so that, hopefully, rules that out somewhat.

 

No shower at the marina unfortunately! Chap at the marina has taken a brief look and will keep contact with me over it. Best i can do at the moment is assume it's the sink and keep hoovering I think

 

If its not the hull leaking, water tank leak, PRV draining into the bilge or rain coming in round a door/window/hatch or mushroom vent, then it's either condensation or a plumbing leak. 

Do you know what sort of insulation is behind the cabin lining? Is it continuous without breaks? Is there a vapour barrier fitted? Have you been round and checked every plumbing joint (including the central heating pipework and drain pipes) and every plumbing appliance (filters, pump etc) for leakage with a bit of dry toilet paper?

Edited by David Mack
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40 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Me too. My pump is installed inside a rectangular plastic washing up bowl with one of these water level alarms inside. Domestic water pumps are prone to leaking, some brands more than others, but I wouldn't just put my pump on the floor again after a couple of leaks. I've got an alarm sensor in a shallow bowl under the shower drain and another one a couple of inches above the stern gland bilge as an early warning system. 

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On 02/05/2022 at 14:28, RickS said:

 

Did find a leaky bathroom trap, so that will go and be replaced with tubing to the skin fitting rather than another trap. Presumably it has been leaking since i bought the boat, although no water was showing in the bathroom cupboard, or at least only a bit. Would that have produced the large amount hoovered out of the bilge?

 

But that would indicate that the person who fitted your waste pipes didn't know what he/she was doing. I did all the plumbing on my boat and in the 17 years of owning it none of my waste pipe joints (or freshwater joints) has ever leaked. As your bathroom waste trap is leaking then if you have not already done so check all the other waste pipes including the shower tray drain/waste pipe. Then start checking every freshwater plumbing joint.

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6 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The screw in plastic filter strikes again, I have seen loads of these split and leak. Being before the pump they only announce their failure when the bilge fills up.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll give it a good check over when I next go to the boat.

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6 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Another vote for an accumulator then.

Don't yet know if mines cracked or split but I've got an accumulator fitted immediately after yhe pump. Piping is flexible hose.

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5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Me too. My pump is installed inside a rectangular plastic washing up bowl with one of these water level alarms inside. Domestic water pumps are prone to leaking, some brands more than others, but I wouldn't just put my pump on the floor again after a couple of leaks. I've got an alarm sensor in a shallow bowl under the shower drain and another one a couple of inches above the stern gland bilge as an early warning system. 

My filter, pump and accumulator all fit inside a plastic tray that's about 175mm deep. Sufficient to contain drips but not leaks. Maybe it's time for some kind of sensor.

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1 hour ago, Slim said:

My filter, pump and accumulator all fit inside a plastic tray that's about 175mm deep. Sufficient to contain drips but not leaks. Maybe it's time for some kind of sensor.

 

Well I would say there's not much point in a tray without a sensor (unless it's in full view), because if there's a leak the tray will just overflow without you knowing. Those 9v battery operated water level sensor/alarms are cheap and save a lot of mess if there is a leak.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update and a further question, if anyone is still interested 🙂

 

I have exhausted pretty much everything in the boat - apart from the central heating system, which I feel is an unlikely candidate but under investigation. I must have missed something because it doesn't answer the question of where the water is / has been coming from.

 

My question is: how likely is rain ingress to cause the amount of water I have pumped out over the last few weeks (100 litres plus)? Admittedly it has been happening and I was unaware of it, but would that amount be likely? It is the volume that makes me think it comes from inside the boat, but can't find how - so rain?

 

Cheers

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4 minutes ago, RickS said:

Just an update and a further question, if anyone is still interested 🙂

 

I have exhausted pretty much everything in the boat - apart from the central heating system, which I feel is an unlikely candidate but under investigation. I must have missed something because it doesn't answer the question of where the water is / has been coming from.

 

My question is: how likely is rain ingress to cause the amount of water I have pumped out over the last few weeks (100 litres plus)? Admittedly it has been happening and I was unaware of it, but would that amount be likely? It is the volume that makes me think it comes from inside the boat, but can't find how - so rain?

 

Cheers

window or roof vent leaks will let a lot of water in. I have a hatch over my engine room which wasn't sealed properly and in heavy rain it was like a slow tap coming in.

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Cruiser, semi trad or trad? Do you have a rear canopy? Cruiser and semi trad sterns almost always leak rainwater into the engine bilge if there isn't a well fitted canopy. On most such boats the rear cabin bulkhead goes down to the baseplate, so such water shouldn't find its way into the cabin bilge, but not all bulkheads are fully watertight, or there may be holes low down for pipes or cables through which water can flow. 

Similarly, front well decks usually drain overboard through scuppers, but there are exceptions.

If these are not the cause of the problem, then rainwater ingress is most likely through poorly sealed windows, portholes, mushroom vents, chimney collars, side doors, roof hatch. Have you checked all these?

Edited by David Mack
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Thanks Ditchcrawler. There are some rust patches around some of the windows and the paintwork on the roof is a bit tatty. Would these be most likely to be the point of entry (i suppose that's a bit of an obvious question)?

 

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1 minute ago, RickS said:

Thanks Ditchcrawler. There are some rust patches around some of the windows and the paintwork on the roof is a bit tatty. Would these be most likely to be the point of entry (i suppose that's a bit of an obvious question)?

 

I assume the rusting is not so bad that the shell is actually perforated?

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