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From cassette to pump out.


Bubblebuster

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2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Pump-outs do have advantages if they're done properly, which means spending a lot more money than on a cassette, because they're more complicated with more hardware -- a cheap pumpout installation with corners cut is likely to give plenty of trouble, see Loddon's post above... 😞

 

So if cost is an issue, go for a cassette, don't try and do a pumpout on the cheap. Be aware that you'll have to have regular visits to pump-out stations (and pay typically £15 per time), which may be an issue depending on where you moor and how much you travel. Unless you want to go the self-pumpout route, which is not recommended for novices... 😉

 

But pump outs also have some disadvantages which are well documented no matter how much money you spend on them, and conversely cassettes have some advantages...

 

They both have advantages & disadvantages and as I said there is no perfect toilet system on a boat. Different systems will suit different people. I had pump out on my first boat but I prefer cassettes and not because of cost.

Edited by blackrose
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8 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

Are extra cassettes expensive?

There are storage issues of course. 

 

Yes.

 

Unless you buy a fresh up kit which includes a new seat. For some reason best known to Thetford they come cheaper like that rather than just buying a single cassette.

 

They come in at just under a £100.

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Look at it this way -- if you put in a cassette and don't like it and replace it with a pumpout, at least you won't have wasted much money.

 

😉

 

You will if you then realise you don't like pump outs! 😊

 

That was actually my point to the OP. Don't go spending lots of time and money installing a pump out until you really know it's what you want. 

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Don't be put off by the cassette brigade. Retro fitting a pump out may be easier than you think depending on which flavour (yuk!) you go for. A remote tank to a macerator or vacuum system will work if there's no space for a dump thru. What's behind the bathroom bulkhead? If it's a bed then that makes it easy. Sure it's even easier on a new build but not impossible for conversion. Cost is a big consideration and then there's pump out charges. I have my own 240v pump out system it's not cheaper but certainly more convenient. Having the pump out connections on the roof is one of the best decisions I made. A porcelain toilet was a condition applied by swmbo when we started the fit out.

  • Greenie 2
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Pump out every time. Carrying a heavy container out of the boat and to the nearest elsan every couple of days is not my idea of a non event. We lived onboard for 25 years with a pump out and never wanted to change.

  • Greenie 2
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6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

A spare cassette costs about the same as six pump outs ;)

The last one I got was a swap for a chimney collar. 

You've still got to store them somewhere. At least with a pumpout you have a neatly built in tank

  • Greenie 1
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26 minutes ago, sueb said:

You've still got to store them somewhere. At least with a pumpout you have a neatly built in tank

My two spares sit under part of the bed that overhangs the corridor, there is space for a third one there

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4 hours ago, dmr said:

 

Do note thatt this forum is heavily biassed towards cassettes, so much so that those with pump outs just don't bother to talk about them here.

So, get a plastic tank, get a tank big enough to last at least 6 to 8 weeks.

The decision is whether to get a dump trough or something complicated.

Dump throughs are very simple so don't really go wrong, and with a bit of practice you can perfect a minimal water flush. The downside is that unless you get the ventilation just right that can be whiffy when flushed.....stuff goes in, smelly air comes out.

Macerators and vaccuum systems will go wrong.

and put a bit of thought into tank location so that boat does not list when tank is full.

Ignore those who say it will be terrible when you get frozen in in winter.

Yes spot on.

I would also check out the cost of a macerator toilet and tank for yourself. 

I've used dump throughs on several hire boats. Used cassettes on a previous boat and had a mercerator and tank for the last 12 years. The macerator/ tank is the nearest to the 'real thing' IMHO. Water usage isn't an issue. 

I've had to 'clear' it twice due to one of the mutants girl friends sticking ladies things down it. To be honest it wasn't a big deal or as horrid as I feared. 

 

The biggest thing you need to consider is how you will pump it out. At the marina it used to be 10 quid a go which wasn't an issue as we aren't liveaboards. The marina we were at changed to free DIY pumpouts. Out and about then 15 quid a go is common. I have a small pump and a couple of 20 litre containers so can do a cassette style empty if needed or in the case of the proverbial 'freeze up' which has never happened so far....

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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6 hours ago, blackrose said:

The unfortunate truth is that all boat toilets leave a lot to be desired and there is no perfect solution. Think hard before you change.


Exactly this. 
 

2 hours ago, sueb said:

Pump out every time. Carrying a heavy container out of the boat and to the nearest elsan every couple of days is not my idea of a non event. We lived onboard for 25 years with a pump out and never wanted to change.


But I could counter that if the thing leaks 200 litres of raw sewage under your bed, that is not my idea of a non event. Or the actual act of pumping it out, and the gut wrenchingly disgusting smell of your rotten effluent that drifts downwind for 1/4 mile as a non event. Nor even the impact on your wallet of paying for the pump out as a non event. Don’t even get me started on unattended self pump out hoses flying around the elsan point, hosing it in raw sewage.

I’m not against pump out toilets. I nearly fitted one, but as @blackrose very succinctly put it, all boat toilets are a bit rubbish when compared to a house toilet and you just need to choose what works for you…..they all have downsides. 

Edited by booke23
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12 hours ago, sueb said:

Pump out every time. Carrying a heavy container out of the boat and to the nearest elsan every couple of days is not my idea of a non event. We lived onboard for 25 years with a pump out and never wanted to change.

Sue, why did you think you have to carry the heavy container to the elsan? We used to pull the boat up on the elsan points and carry it a few feet, quicker than getting a pump out hose unravelled. 3 cassettes would last us a week and as when we were ccers we passed an elsan point ,most days. If stuck in a marina either boat to the elsan point or have a little trolley for the cassette. Having had dump through tank, macerater and cassettes and porta pottis, the cassette or porta potti wins hands down. :D

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5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Sue, why did you think you have to carry the heavy container to the elsan?

 

 

Some people just like to make their life difficult.

 

There are even cassettes with wheels and a handle 'ala' Luggage-trolly, but, having one of those gives one another thing that they cannot moan about.

 

Thetford C200 Caravan Cassette Toilet Replacement Spare Waste Holding Tank

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Some people just like to make their life difficult.

 

There are even cassettes with wheels and a handle 'ala' Luggage-trolly, but, having one of those gives one another thing that they cannot moan about.

 

Thetford C200 Caravan Cassette Toilet Replacement Spare Waste Holding Tank

But the wheels reduce the capacity meaning you have to empty it more often 🤭

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3 hours ago, Bubblebuster said:

I did a little search but new to the site and like a narrowboat, not always easy to navigate. 🙂

To search canalworld.net, for stuff on toilets or any other web site on its own, then you can place the following in your browsers usual search box, rather than using the canalworld search box.

 

site:canalworld.net toilets

 

In

general, use

site:website.com subject of search

Works on Google, DuckDuckGo and probably others.

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15 hours ago, Bubblebuster said:

Are extra cassettes expensive?

There are storage issues of course. 

Yes for what they are, about £100 each and full ones need to be stored flat, they weigh about 20Kg when full so best on the floor.

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We have a macerator toilet with a holding tank under our bed on Idle Days. We empty it every 3 weeks at a cost of £8 plus £10 for Elsan fluid, it's an easy job.

 

We previously had a Thetford cassette toilet in our caravan which needed emptying every couple of days without any drama.

 

We decided that we did not want a cassette toilet on our boat. We haven't found it difficult pump-out facilities when touring.

 

 

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Another macerator here (2 actually) with a stainless tank under the bed. Never had any real problems in 15 years. Also never had much trouble finding pump-outs on the Thames, but I don’t know about the rest of the system. 
 

I’m sure we would also cope fine with cassettes, but we’re a family of 4 and often have visitors, so doing it ‘en-masse’ suits us well. 

  • Greenie 1
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38 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

To search canalworld.net, for stuff on toilets or any other web site on its own, then you can place the following in your browsers usual search box, rather than using the canalworld search box.

 

site:canalworld.net toilets

 

In

general, use

site:website.com subject of search

Works on Google, DuckDuckGo and probably others.

Thanks Jen.

39 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

Yes for what they are, about £100 each and full ones need to be stored flat, they weigh about 20Kg when full so best on the floor.

Thanks for that.

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One further point, well a couple actually.

 

We carry a Porta-potty for emergency use, haven't had to yet.

 

Macerator toilets also require maintenance, as do cassettes. I have to change the non-return valve on ours around twice a year, not unduly difficult to do.

 

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19 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Pump-outs do have advantages if they're done properly, which means spending a lot more money than on a cassette, because they're more complicated with more hardware -- a cheap pumpout installation with corners cut is likely to give plenty of trouble, see Loddon's post above... 😞

In the 1970's a group of us from my club used to hire one or two boats every year. One year the boat we had been given had just been converted to pump-out. On getting up one morning a thin  stream of liquid could be seen in the central gangway, originating  from  one of the two toilets. As that year we had an all-male crew, we thought someone's aim had been poor during the night, but on close inspection it turned out to be  a  leak from the elbow that connected the pan to the toilet outflow.    Due to the confined space, the elbow was fouling the wall of the toilet cubicle  and so wasn't seated properly. We just used the other toilet for the rest of the week and reported it when we returned the boat. 

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