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From cassette to pump out.


Bubblebuster

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Not sold on cassette loos (or compost come to that truth be told) - so how difficult or possible is it to convert from cassette to pump out as I guess having the latter involves having a poo storage tank fitted . Big job on an existing boat, but easier on a new build even if it's not in the original build spec?

 

Not the most pleasant of subjects, but we've all got to do it. 😊

 

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Probably not actually as I can see the savings, but having seen a read about how unpleasant it can be to tip out your waste and not infrequently, I have begun to wonder.

Guess I need to talk more to those with cassettes.   

57 minutes ago, IanD said:

How much easier it is on a new build depends on how far the fit out has got -- bare shell no problem, fully fitted just as bad as an existing boat...

Point taken, but surely it's going to be cheaper to do any work before the boat goes into the water rather than afterwards?

No lifting out and putting back in for starters. 

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I briefly considered this when I bought my boat (It came with a compost toilet). The first thing I would say is live with your current toilet for a few months. You might find it turns out ok (I did, but still didn't like the compost toilet and replaced it with a cassette).

 

I could have installed a modern macerator pump out reasonably easily....after all the tank can go anywhere that's convenient. However what eventually put me off it was water usage (Cassettes use much less water), and more importantly the cost......a top of the line Thetford cassette toilet with ceramic bowl is around £500 (£350 for the perfectly good entry model with plastic bowl) and is easy to install yourself, whereas the pump out toilet was going to cost the best part of £2000 in parts alone, never mind installation costs. 

Don't believe sensationalist youtube videos where people are heaving when emptying the cassette. In practice I find emptying the cassette a non event. Use decent blue, and the smells are not bad at all. Add a spare cassette or two and you can go for a while between visiting elsan points. 

 



 

Edited by booke23
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15 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

Probably not actually as I can see the savings, but having seen a read about how unpleasant it can be to tip out your waste and not infrequently, I have begun to wonder.

Guess I need to talk more to those with cassettes.   

Point taken, but surely it's going to be cheaper to do any work before the boat goes into the water rather than afterwards?

No lifting out and putting back in for starters. 

Maybe easier, but I don't think you need to take a boat out of the water to fit a pumpout toilet/tank, you're not cutting any holes in the hull below the waterline.

 

For sure the earlier you make the change the easier and cheaper it will be...

 

What you probably won't get is many impartial opinions on the subject on CWDF, most people seem to be either strongly for or against pumpouts (or cassettes)... 😉

Edited by IanD
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1 minute ago, IanD said:

Maybe easier, but I don't think you need to take a boat out of the water to fit a pumpout toilet/tank, you're not cutting any holes in the hull below the waterline.

 

For sure the earlier you make the change the easier and cheaper it will be...

 

What you probably won't get is mimpartial opinions on the subject on CWDF, most people seem to be strongly for or against pumpouts (or cassettes)... 😉

Interesting, thanks. 🙂

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Last three of my boats had pump out.

Boat 1 Tank rusted around where the toilet was and it became loose, removed it and got a porta potti

Boat 2 Tank was way too small only lasted a couple of weeks, replaced with a cassette

Boat 3 Tank top rusted through from the inside, replaced with a cassette.

 

Can you see a pattern here?

 

Been dealing with cassettes for 30 years, I find it quite therapeutic emptying the cassette ;)

 

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42 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I briefly considered this when I bought my boat (It came with a compost toilet). The first thing I would say is live with your current toilet for a few months. You might find it turns out ok (I did, but still didn't like the compost toilet and replaced it with a cassette).

 

I could have installed a modern macerator pump out reasonably easily....after all the tank can go anywhere that's convenient. However what eventually put be off it was water usage (Cassettes use much less water), and more importantly the cost......a top of the line Thetford cassette toilet with ceramic bowl is around £500 (£350 for the perfectly good entry model with plastic bowl) and is easy to install yourself, whereas the pump out toilet was going to cost the best part of £2000 in parts alone, never mind installation costs. 

Don't believe sensationalist youtube videos where people are heaving when emptying the cassette. In practice I find emptying the cassette a non event. Use decent blue, and the smells are not bad at all. Add a spare cassette or two and you can go for a while between visiting elsan points. 

 



 

Sounds better that what I have seen on youtube so thanks, will take your advice and see how it goes.

What's the worst that can happen! 

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

Last three of my boats had pump out.

Boat 1 Tank rusted around where the toilet was and it became loose, removed it and got a porta potti

Boat 2 Tank was way too small only lasted a couple of weeks, replaced with a cassette

Boat 3 Tank top rusted through from the inside, replaced with a cassette.

 

Can you see a pattern here?

 

Been dealing with cassettes for 30 years, I find it quite therapeutic emptying the cassette ;)

 

😃

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59 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I briefly considered this when I bought my boat (It came with a compost toilet). The first thing I would say is live with your current toilet for a few months. You might find it turns out ok (I did, but still didn't like the compost toilet and replaced it with a cassette).

 

I could have installed a modern macerator pump out reasonably easily....after all the tank can go anywhere that's convenient. However what eventually put be off it was water usage (Cassettes use much less water), and more importantly the cost......a top of the line Thetford cassette toilet with ceramic bowl is around £500 (£350 for the perfectly good entry model with plastic bowl) and is easy to install yourself, whereas the pump out toilet was going to cost the best part of £2000 in parts alone, never mind installation costs. 

Don't believe sensationalist youtube videos where people are heaving when emptying the cassette. In practice I find emptying the cassette a non event. Use decent blue, and the smells are not bad at all. Add a spare cassette or two and you can go for a while between visiting elsan points. 

 



 

Spot on. Cassette emptying is a complete, few seconds non event. Having been frozen in, in the wilds before I found I could still remove and trolley a cassette off to an elsan. Lifting twenty tons of boat out of the water and carrying it to a pump out machine could prove problematic. Just need 3 cassettes so 2 spare. A pump out tank uses up a huge amount of much needed storage space on the boat.

Edited by mrsmelly
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24 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Spot on. Cassette emptying is a complete, few seconds non event. Having been frozen in, in the wilds before I found I could still remove and trolley a cassette off to an elsan. Lifting twenty tons of boat out of the water and carrying it to a pump out machine could prove problematic. Just need 3 cassettes so 2 spare. A pump out tank uses up a huge amount of much needed storage space on the boat.

 

 

 

You Know It makes Sense.png

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53 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Last three of my boats had pump out.

Boat 1 Tank rusted around where the toilet was and it became loose, removed it and got a porta potti

Boat 2 Tank was way too small only lasted a couple of weeks, replaced with a cassette

Boat 3 Tank top rusted through from the inside, replaced with a cassette.

 

Can you see a pattern here?

 

Been dealing with cassettes for 30 years, I find it quite therapeutic emptying the cassette ;)

 

 

Yeah, the pattern is that a lousy pumpout installation with a tank that can rust through is a bad idea 😉

 

Most decent installations nowadays use reasonably big stainless steel or rigid plastic tanks, which suffer none of these problems.

 

It's like complaining that all cars fall to pieces through rust, based on experience of cars like a 1970s Austin Allegro...

Edited by IanD
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3 hours ago, Bubblebuster said:

Not sold on cassette loos (or compost come to that truth be told) - so how difficult or possible is it to convert from cassette to pump out as I guess having the latter involves having a poo storage tank fitted . Big job on an existing boat, but easier on a new build even if it's not in the original build spec?

 

Not the most pleasant of subjects, but we've all got to do it. 😊

 

 

Different toilet systems suit different people. But before you go to all the trouble of converting, how sure are you that you're sold on pump out toilets? Have you actually lived with one before?

 

The unfortunate truth is that all boat toilets leave a lot to be desired and there is no perfect solution. Think hard before you change.

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5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Different toilet systems suit different people. But before you go to all the trouble of converting, how sure are you that you're sold on pump out toilets? Have you actually lived with one before?

 

The unfortunate truth is that all boat toilets leave a lot to be desired and there is no perfect solution. Think hard before you change.

 

Pump-outs do have advantages if they're done properly, which means spending a lot more money than on a cassette, because they're more complicated with more hardware -- a cheap pumpout installation with corners cut is likely to give plenty of trouble, see Loddon's post above... 😞

 

So if cost is an issue, go for a cassette, don't try and do a pumpout on the cheap. Be aware that you'll have to have regular visits to pump-out stations (and pay typically £15 per time), which may be an issue depending on where you moor and how much you travel. Unless you want to go the self-pumpout route, which is not recommended for novices... 😉

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22 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Different toilet systems suit different people. But before you go to all the trouble of converting, how sure are you that you're sold on pump out toilets? Have you actually lived with one before?

 

The unfortunate truth is that all boat toilets leave a lot to be desired and there is no perfect solution. Think hard before you change.

F'sure pump are the only thing I have ever experienced in the past and the only cassettes I have seen truth be told is on/in my brothers motor home.  

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6 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

F'sure pump are the only thing I have ever experienced in the past and the only cassettes I have seen truth be told is on/in my brothers motor home.  

 

Look at it this way -- if you put in a cassette and don't like it and replace it with a pumpout, at least you won't have wasted much money.

 

If you put in a pumpout and don't like it and rip it out and replace it with a cassette, you'll have wasted a fortune 😉

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36 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

All good stuff guys, guess I'll stay with cassettes and see how it goes. 

 

Do note thatt this forum is heavily biassed towards cassettes, so much so that those with pump outs just don't bother to talk about them here.

So, get a plastic tank, get a tank big enough to last at least 6 to 8 weeks.

The decision is whether to get a dump trough or something complicated.

Dump throughs are very simple so don't really go wrong, and with a bit of practice you can perfect a minimal water flush. The downside is that unless you get the ventilation just right that can be whiffy when flushed.....stuff goes in, smelly air comes out.

Macerators and vaccuum systems will go wrong.

and put a bit of thought into tank location so that boat does not list when tank is full.

Ignore those who say it will be terrible when you get frozen in in winter.

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4 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

Thanks, taken on board. 🙂 

 

If fitting a plastic tank and macerator ensure the pipework between the loo and the tank entry is fully and properly supported so that when the loo empties its contents and the pipe flexes the resulting stresses that are placed upon the tank dont cause it to fracture.

 

This is what happened to ours despite the boat being fitted out by a reputable builder.

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We find cassettes are fine when there's the two of us on board but if we have guests on board Elsan anxiety rears its head. We've got two cassettes but even so there's always the idea at the back of your mind that you might run out of tank space. 

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