To overplate or not to overplate?

[Tetlow619]

Hello all, 

 

We have a 30 year old 50ft springer.

We bought her 3 years ago and have just had her out for a survey for GJW insurance purposes.

The surveyor started a hammer test and stopped within 10mins as he was scared he was going to put a hole in the Hull.

From what we could see when she was out she had overplating on the bow and stern but none on the middle.

I've had 2 boat yards give me a rough estimate of overplating at £10k+ without a survey report.

 

Firstly is this a figure pulled out their arse when I don't even have a survey report and secondly if I do have her out again and overplating is required what are the dangers of it and is it the best way to go as I don't particularly want to spend £10k+ if I don't have to.

 

Thanks 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

Hello all, 

 

We have a 30 year old 50ft springer.

We bought her 3 years ago and have just had her out for a survey for GJW insurance purposes.

The surveyor started a hammer test and stopped within 10mins as he was scared he was going to put a hole in the Hull.

From what we could see when she was out she had overplating on the bow and stern but none on the middle.

I've had 2 boat yards give me a rough estimate of overplating at £10k+ without a survey report.

 

Firstly is this a figure pulled out their arse when I don't even have a survey report and secondly if I do have her out again and overplating is required what are the dangers of it and is it the best way to go as I don't particularly want to spend £10k+ if I don't have to.

 

Thanks 

If you want it insured comprehensively you have no choice but to over-plate  or better cut out and re-plate Even more expensive.

 

If you want it stay afloat for a while you have to have it over plated.

 

So why do you think that you don't have too?

 

Where are you?  Prices are cheaper north of London.

 

 

[Tetlow619]

Hi Tracy,

 

Fair point, I didn't say I don't think I have to! I was questioning a quote off of no evidence of what work is required. 

This was a quote from West London. 

Is the material and labour cheaper up north then? 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Labour certainly. We are very poor up here. We have to work for a bag of rice a week. Its more competitive so we can't rip people off else we have no work and no shoes.

Woad is getting expensive too.

 

In London you will get a ball park figure plus a lump because they don't really want to do it. V bottom Springers are a cow to work on in a dry dock. 

With a flat bottom hull all they do is drop it onto a new base plate and weld round the edge. You can't do that with yours.

[Tetlow619]

Ah okay, that makes more sense now! 

Thank you for your advice 🙏🏻 

[Movin' on]

Contact a couple of midlands yards just to give yourself a benchmark

 

Streethay Wharf have made overplating springers a bit of a specialism (as have others) and should be able to give you a pretty decent quote over the phone as will Lime Farm - IMHO £10k is only £200/ft so isn't bad

[Tetlow619]

Hi Movin' on 

Great shout thank you! I'm getting the feeling going further north will be better. 

Okay so the price is about right? 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Do you know exactly how much plating needs doing?

Is it just the middle of the sides?

You need to work out how much they’re charging you per foot. 
 

 

Yes Streethay, Lichfield do V bottoms. 
 

[Tetlow619]

Hi Goliath, 

 

No this is my problem, the surveyor didn't give us a report (and didn't charge us) and didn't complete the survey so for the boat yard we had her out at to say £10k would that be a random figure or a figure for all 36ft of the middle and assuming sides?  (as the stern and bow appeared to already be plated) 

A previous comment on this said £200 per foot was about right.

[mrsmelly]

25 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

Hi Tracy,

 

Fair point, I didn't say I don't think I have to! I was questioning a quote off of no evidence of what work is required. 

This was a quote from West London. 

Is the material and labour cheaper up north then? 

 

Everything is cheaper away from London. A hovel, skanky flat in London will cost the same as a nice, detached house somewhere thats not London, or indeed the south east.

The beauty of a boat is it doesnt ever need to be in London.

[Tetlow619]

Hi mrsmelly, 

I'm starting to realise this point! Thank you! 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Tetlow619 said:

Hi Goliath, 

 

No this is my problem, the surveyor didn't give us a report (and didn't charge us) and didn't complete the survey so for the boat yard we had her out at to say £10k would that be a random figure or a figure for all 36ft of the middle and assuming sides?  (as the stern and bow appeared to already be plated) 

A previous comment on this said £200 per foot was about right.

One point. Do be careful if doing a full overplate, springers are lightweight boats and its all too easy to make them too heavy and unstable, also watch out that any hull openings remain a safe distance out of the water!!

[Movin' on]

11 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

 

Okay so the price is about right? 

TBC - I'm saying it feels about right but my knowledge is also a bit historic

[Tetlow619]

No problem, any knowledge and advice is greatly appreciated 

[Chewbacka]

I think that if the surveyor was worrying the hammer would go through then something needs doing soon.  As to the 10k figure, you said yourself it was only a rough estimate, which helps you decide whether to scrap the boat, or get the boat out and comprehensively checked over so an accurate quote can be made, just getting the boat into a condition that a quote can be made will cost a bit……

[Tetlow619]

Hi Chewbacka, 

Yes there's no doubt something needs doing in one or more places.

Again yes you are correct it is a rough estimate, I'm looking for advice on if that is a reasonable price from peoples experience with overplating. 

This is also another worry, if I pay a few hundred pounds to get it out and have a full survey and a hole is put in it I'm kind of stuck 

[Slow and Steady]

Contact some yards, describe as best you can and ask for worst case prices and exactly what you would get in that scenario, in writing. From that point it can only get cheaper if less work is needed? The cost of steel has risen so much recently, I doubt you'll get a realistic idea of price from others who have gone through this.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Tetlow619]

Hi Slow and Steady

Very good advice, thank you! 

[Bee]

5 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

Hi Chewbacka, 

Yes there's no doubt something needs doing in one or more places.

Again yes you are correct it is a rough estimate, I'm looking for advice on if that is a reasonable price from peoples experience with overplating. 

This is also another worry, if I pay a few hundred pounds to get it out and have a full survey and a hole is put in it I'm kind of stuck 

I think I would save the money on a survey and just accept the fact that it needs work. Get a few quotes / estimates, take it to a yard that looks like they know what they are doing and just get it done, the welders will have a good idea of what needs doing whatever a surveyor says. If it has holes in the hull for a Lister ventilation get them moved higher too. 30 years is not bad and it will have only had a few coats of inferior bitumastic in that time probably so treat it to some epoxy paint and it will be good for 40 years.

[Tetlow619]

Hi Bee, 

Would a yard do the work without a survey? I suppose they would and plate everything to make sure it is all covered 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

Hi Bee, 

Would a yard do the work without a survey? I suppose they would and plate everything to make sure it is all covered 

You will find that a good yard will make sure it is as good as they can do for the money, they will know more about hulls and their condition than most surveyors.

 

Streethey would be my first call.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Tracy D'arth

[Movin' on]

1 minute ago, Tetlow619 said:

Hi Bee, 

Would a yard do the work without a survey? I suppose they would and plate everything to make sure it is all covered 

 

I wouldn't waste time with "patching" and nor IMHO would any decent yard - having some knowledge of the subject and seen many Springers done at Streethay (as we used to moor there) it will need a complete job and I doubt they will want a survey - but again times change.

 

NOT a great position to be in but that's boating I'm afraid..................it isn't a cheap pastime 

[Tetlow619]

5 minutes ago, Movin' on said:

 

I wouldn't waste time with "patching" and nor IMHO would any decent yard - having some knowledge of the subject and seen many Springers done at Streethay (as we used to moor there) it will need a complete job and I doubt they will want a survey - but again times change.

 

NOT a great position to be in but that's boating I'm afraid..................it isn't a cheap pastime 

 

Yeah that's the way I'm thinking about it, patch one area then another will need doing in the near future.

Looks like Streethay is the way to go, thank you! 

Yeah I'm learning this the hard way .... should have bought a campervan 😆

Thank you for the advice! 

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You will find that a good yard will make sure it is as good as they can do for the money, they will know more about hulls and their condition than most surveyors.

 

Streethey would be my first call.

 

Thank you Tracy 🙏🏻 

[Alan de Enfield]

49 minutes ago, Tetlow619 said:

No problem, any knowledge and advice is greatly appreciated 

 

Just an example of why you need to be careful overplating:

 

Read and make you own decisons, or, take professional advice .

 

Port of London - River Thames (pla.co.uk)

 

On the 24th August 2012 a Narrowboat was delivered by road to South Dock Marina in London for a new owner. The vessel was lifted into the dock and the new owner requested to lock out of the marina as they had an overnight berth in Limehouse Marina; a short distance up the River Thames. The vessel departed the lock at 17:00 with 5 adults and 1 dog aboard. As they departed the lock the lock keeper commented to that they should have lifejackets on board as they appeared to be missing. The crew decided to continue on and left the lock with 3 adults in the aft cockpit and 2 adults in the cabin. The vessel transited directly across the river to the starboard side of the channel and then turned upriver towards Limehouse Marina. Shortly into their transit the crew noted a change in the engine note and opened the engine room hatch to find the engine half submerged. All persons quickly moved to the stern to try and bail out the engine room, but were unable to cope with the ingress of water into the vessel. The engine room continued to fill with water and flooded into the main cabin, submerging the aft coaming below the water, resulting in severe flooding of the vessel which sank within 10 seconds. All of the crew and the dog entered the water without lifejackets, but were rescued by a nearby RIB and Police Launch.

 

[Tetlow619]

Thanks Alan! The added weight is definitely a concern. 

Don't think you are allowed access to the Thames without a life jacket nowadays, sod going on it from Limehouse without one though, ice done that trip