How long should professional rust treatment and re-painting last?

[Lovemyboat]

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

Sorry -  the info I gave wasn't  accurate

The actual rusted area was less than approx. 1sq.m. Then they tore off approx. 2 more sq.ms of the tetextured paint on the roof, and after derusting they painted it. I guessed the measurements before, thinking the. Oat roof is 2m wide! Idiot) I thought it would be good for a few years.

I paid £600 for the job, but was trying to be fair by subtracting £200 for paint etc. I did not ask for a cheap job. I asked for a proper job, and paid the price they asked. Other boaters who have seen the rust have said I paid a lot of money for what the job entailed.

I had lots of maintenance work done there. My final bill was £2600.some of the other work left something to be desired, and they had to come back and redo the seals on the portholes ecause water started running in when it rained. That never happened BEFORE they did the work!

This boatyard is supposed to be reputable, do a good job for a fair price. It came recommended, and has many excellent reviews, though I suspect most of those are just for blacking.

 

[Ronaldo47]

Most of the rust preventative paints that were around 25 - 30 years ago have now been banned for consumer use, in particular the ones that used to include lead, such as the  original Kurust and Calcium Plumbate primers. I think that phosphate rust convering  preparations are still available. Best to remove as much rust as possible with something like an agressive steel wire brush on an angle grinder to get the metal shiny.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Ronaldo47

[Barneyp]

5 minutes ago, Carolyn Ross said:

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

Sorry -  the info I gave wasn't  accurate

The actual rusted area was less than approx. 1sq.m. Then they tore off approx. 2 more sq.ms of the tetextured paint on the roof, and after derusting they painted it. I guessed the measurements before, thinking the. Oat roof is 2m wide! Idiot) I thought it would be good for a few years.

I paid £600 for the job, but was trying to be fair by subtracting £200 for paint etc. I did not ask for a cheap job. I asked for a proper job, and paid the price they asked. Other boaters who have seen the rust have said I paid a lot of money for what the job entailed.

I had lots of maintenance work done there. My final bill was £2600.some of the other work left something to be desired, and they had to come back and redo the seals on the portholes ecause water started running in when it rained. That never happened BEFORE they did the work!

This boatyard is supposed to be reputable, do a good job for a fair price. It came recommended, and has many excellent reviews, though I suspect most of those are just for blacking.

 

I think the problem with reviews left for painting and blacking is they tend to be left within days or weeks of the job being done, what you really need is reviews left by people several years after the job was done to say how well it lasted, not how good it looked at the time.

I think the problem is with the definition of a "proper job", if this wasn't defined in the original quote it could be hard to prove in court that they did anything wrong, although if you did go down the small claims route they may decide to pay up to avoid the agro.

 

For clarity I used to work for a metal coating company, mainly powder coat and 2 pack wet spray, we didn't paint boats but the principles are the same especially as we did a lot of stuff that was for oil rigs and coastal defence.

A lot of what we did was backed by a warranty, but the most important thing to our customers was that we followed a specified process and inspected/took measurements at each stage to show we were doing what we had agreed.

 

Did you actually see your roof at each stage of the process, as it sounds to me as if they may have just removed the top layer of paint and the surface rust and then painted straight away with top coat.

OR they may have made more of an effort to remove the rust, used a rust treatment and primers before top coat, but not properly degreased/cleaned the area. If the rust was caused by coal bags it is possible there was some chemical residue left from the coal/solid fuel or the bags themselves which had reacted with the paint.

 

I think if I was you I would write a formal letter of complaint and send it by recorded delivery (keep a copy), saying you will take legal action if they don't respond.

[Higgs]

39 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

OR they may have made more of an effort to remove the rust, used a rust treatment and primers before top coat, but not properly degreased/cleaned the area. If the rust was caused by coal bags it is possible there was some chemical residue left from the coal/solid fuel or the bags themselves which had reacted with the paint.

 

I painted narrowboats for about ten years, and my policy was to never use any additives or rust treatments. This was partly to protect myself. Using any products that were not part of the paint system would make it tricky to argue with the paint supply agent, if I thought, rarely anyway, that the paint wasn't performing properly; though, It did happen with some very expensive two-pack, on one job. 

 

Cleaning the steel back to being bright, and then thoroughly degreasing a surface is advisable. 

 

Out on the towpath, I came across a newish and expensive-looking widebeam, with paint rashes, and the shape of one rash was very definitely a boot print. They probably wouldn't have had too much trouble in claiming poor work. As the print was on the cabin side, it must have been there since the flat sheet of steel was laying on the fabrication shop floor, and walked on, at some stage.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Higgs

[Lovemyboat]

3 hours ago, Barneyp said:

I think the problem with reviews left for painting and blacking is they tend to be left within days or weeks of the job being done, what you really need is reviews left by people several years after the job was done to say how well it lasted, not how good it looked at the time.

I think the problem is with the definition of a "proper job", if this wasn't defined in the original quote it could be hard to prove in court that they did anything wrong, although if you did go down the small claims route they may decide to pay up to avoid the agro.

 

For clarity I used to work for a metal coating company, mainly powder coat and 2 pack wet spray, we didn't paint boats but the principles are the same especially as we did a lot of stuff that was for oil rigs and coastal defence.

A lot of what we did was backed by a warranty, but the most important thing to our customers was that we followed a specified process and inspected/took measurements at each stage to show we were doing what we had agreed.

 

Did you actually see your roof at each stage of the process, as it sounds to me as if they may have just removed the top layer of paint and the surface rust and then painted straight away with top coat.

OR they may have made more of an effort to remove the rust, used a rust treatment and primers before top coat, but not properly degreased/cleaned the area. If the rust was caused by coal bags it is possible there was some chemical residue left from the coal/solid fuel or the bags themselves which had reacted with the paint.

 

I think if I was you I would write a formal letter of complaint and send it by recorded delivery (keep a copy), saying you will take legal action if they don't respond.

I didn't see every step of what they did. I was in the boatyard for 5 weeks, and desperate to leave. I expected them to do a good job

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Carolyn Ross said:

I didn't see every step of what they did. I was in the boatyard for 5 weeks, and desperate to leave. I expected them to do a good job

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

This is very unfortunate and I don't think you did anything wrong, other than trusting them to do a good job. 

 

The sad thing is, £600 is possibly not worth squabbling over as I'd suggest the time, effort and emotional stress will be massive, and given their attitude they will probably throw up enough doubt in court to ensure you lose.

 

Also, philosophically speaking it is better to spend one's life looking forwards, than backwards and stressing about what should have been. You may prefer to be like a dog with a bone over it (some people are) but were it me, I'd suck it up, forget it and get on with my life, and post the name of the yard on here so people know they have been shitbags to you. 

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Barneyp said:

I think the problem with reviews left for painting and blacking is they tend to be left within days or weeks of the job being done, what you really need is reviews left by people several years after the job was done to say how well it lasted, not how good it looked at the time. 

You see photos on line of boats just out of the shed with there owners waxing on about the quality of the paint work, As you say, whats it like 5 years later

[Lovemyboat]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

This is very unfortunate and I don't think you did anything wrong, other than trusting them to do a good job. 

 

The sad thing is, £600 is possibly not worth squabbling over as I'd suggest the time, effort and emotional stress will be massive, and given their attitude they will probably throw up enough doubt in court to ensure you lose.

 

Also, philosophically speaking it is better to spend one's life looking forwards, than backwards and stressing about what should have been. You may prefer to be like a dog with a bone over it (some people are) but were it me, I'd suck it up, forget it and get on with my life, and post the name of the yard on here so people know they have been shitbags to you. 

Well, I'm retired, single-handed, and £600 is a lot to me. Gallows Bridge Boatyard at Shipley.

It is rusty all over the are they worked on, where it was never rusty before., and nothing has ever been placed on it.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

How far away from the yard are you now?

Could you return and speak in person?

I would approach in person if I could and show them what you’re not happy with. 

 

 

[LadyG]

It was Gallows Bridge who sanded my roof, he talks a good job, but does not deliver. The lad only sanded with a rotary sander and waved a brush over the rust revealed. He did not prep the mushroom stalks. I don't think his work was supervised. A lot of it was not smooth, it seemed he had spend a lot of time on the easy areas.

There was a thin layer of white brushed on to the rust areas, I sanded this off and re coated it with rust primer, before the topcoat, so it was not, in my opinion properly prepped.

My roof was not deeply rusted, and I would be screaming if it looked like that ! I'm glad I was there and I'm glad my roof was good to begin with. I painted it last year and as no rust has appeared I gave it another two coats this year.

Oh, and of course he was asked to sand one side not the roof!

I had the hull pressure washed (it was only a Karcher so took a while) they were asked to use a cupped wire brush to prep the hull, which was in excellent condition and I put the epoxy on myself. So no corner cut there

 I have found that fifty percent of the work I have ever paid for has been very bad. God knows how bad if I'd not been there!

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

How far away from the yard are you now?

Could you return and speak in person?

I would approach in person if I could and show them what you’re not happy with. 

 

 

You need to give them an opportunity to do the job properly, but if this is not possible ask another yard for a quote, then insist they pay this sum, contact Trading Standards if you like, but I have found they are useless.

The photograph is good evidence.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, Goliath said:

Floor paint works for me.

Key the surface thoroughly with sandpaper and a wire brush, touch up places that need it with what ever primers I have on board.

A couple of coats of floor paint dries hard and tough.

 

What would work me is that it's presumably for concrete not metal.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You need to give them an opportunity to do the job properly, but if this is not possible ask another yard for a quote, then insist they pay this sum, contact Trading Standards if you like, but I have found they are useless.

The photograph is good evidence.

 

You can’t really give them the opportunity to do the job properly if you don’t turn up with the boat and talk face to face.

 

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

What would work me is that it's presumably for concrete not metal.

It’s for wood too

 

But works very well on metal. 

[MtB]

I don't think they deserve a second chance to do it right. This would cause significant inconvenience and stress to the OP.

 

I think a full refund is the way to go, then spend the money with a different boat painter doing it properly. This will probably require a Money Claim On Line. 

 

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Be prepared for a fight over it, they have probably been sued many times before and they will know exactly how best to defend a claim. 

 

 

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

I don't think they deserve a second chance to do it right. This would cause significant inconvenience and stress to the OP.

 

I think a full refund is the way to go, then spend the money with a different boat painter doing it properly. This will probably require a Money Claim On Line. 

 

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Be prepared for a fight over it, they have probably been sued many times before and they will know exactly how best to defend a claim. 

 

 

You are right there, I was not happy, and it costs lot for minimal work.

He told me if I wanted the boat painted it would be £4k, I think that would be a quick job for re sale, and given his charges, I doubt it would be end up at £4k

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You are right there, I was not happy, and it costs lot for minimal work.

He told me if I wanted the boat painted it would be £4k, I think that would be a quick job for re sale, and given his charges, I doubt it would be end up at £4k

 

 

I'm very much hoping that Lovemyboat has an itemised invoice and a receipt for the work done, and it wasn't done 'cash in hand'. 

 

If not, then a Money Claim on line will be a non-starter as they will probably deny doing the work in the first place. 

 

 

[Barneyp]

56 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You need to give them an opportunity to do the job properly, but if this is not possible ask another yard for a quote, then insist they pay this sum, contact Trading Standards if you like, but I have found they are useless.

The photograph is good evidence.

 

Trading standards are not in a position to deal with things like this, the small claims court or money claim on line is the way to go.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

Trading standards are not in a position to deal with things like this, the small claims court or money claim on line is the way to go.

 

Totally agree. Trading Standards are concerned with stuff like fraudulent advertising and breaches of the law such as the RCR, not contract disputes about whether what was agreed was actually done.

 

[robtheplod]

14 hours ago, MtB said:

I don't think they deserve a second chance to do it right. This would cause significant inconvenience and stress to the OP.

 

I think a full refund is the way to go, then spend the money with a different boat painter doing it properly. This will probably require a Money Claim On Line. 

 

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Be prepared for a fight over it, they have probably been sued many times before and they will know exactly how best to defend a claim. 

 

 

Doesn't the painter have the legal right to correct the problem if they are able rather than refund?  Sure i saw this a while ago.... 

[ditchcrawler]

This is what can happen when a paint job fails and you go to court

My day in Court with Collingwood Boat Builders – Retirement with No Problem

[Chewbacka]

16 hours ago, LadyG said:

What would work me is that it's presumably for concrete not metal.

I spoke to a couple of floor paint manufacturers and they told me I would be lucky to get more than a few years on a boat roof - being an ‘indoor’ floor paint they were not resistant to UV, and boat roofs get a lot of that.

[Barneyp]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

This is what can happen when a paint job fails and you go to court

My day in Court with Collingwood Boat Builders – Retirement with No Problem

I think that was a much bigger claim, it refers to "two pack blacking" ( presumably 2 pack epoxy) and the paint on the coachroof, so the claim was probably the cost of blasting the whole boat back to steel and then coating with 2 pack - several thousand pounds at a guess. Which would have meant the boatyard (collingwood) would have fought the claim in court.

 

This claim is only for £600, the boatyard may decide it's easier to pay than to fight it, and if they do go to court a different judge may well come to a different conclusion.

 

 

 

[Lovemyboat]

22 hours ago, Goliath said:

How far away from the yard are you now?

Could you return and speak in person?

I would approach in person if I could and show them what you’re not happy with. 

 

He won't even answer the phone. He has already had to come back and reseal the portholes. He returned willingly, but then became quite nasty with me when he and his employees were actually doing the job. I don't want to deal with him again. I also sent him emails with all the photos. No response whatsoever.

 

[Lovemyboat]

I have read all your posts with great interest. I see now that there is another boater who has had very similar problems with Gallows Bridge bad workmanship.

I don't usually make negative complaints, but it was quite an unpleasant experience, and the other work do e is not brilliant. I'm just fed-up with paying good money for a bad job.

Thank you all for taking the time to post your thoughts. I really appreciate it.

[Lovemyboat]

20 hours ago, LadyG said:

You are right there, I was not happy, and it costs lot for minimal work.

He told me if I wanted the boat painted it would be £4k, I think that would be a quick job for re sale, and given his charges, I doubt it would be end up at £4k

I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience, too, but it does support the truth of what I'm saying. I always research a d ask for recommendations when I need work done, and I'm happy to pay a fair price for a decent job. But it doesn't seem to matter what I do, there's no guarantee of getting someone decent.