Towing the boat

[Chirag]

Hi anyone know who can tow me from little Venice to Camden 

[Kendorr]

The usual answer for all things London is to contact the London Boaters FB group.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Many (most?) boat insurance policies don't cover towing, except in an emergency, so asking some one for a tow is asking for a lot. If anything goes wrong, then there won't be cover.

[Captain Pegg]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Many (most?) boat insurance policies don't cover towing, except in an emergency, so asking some one for a tow is asking for a lot. If anything goes wrong, then there won't be cover.

 

It's almost impossible to have both boats covered by insurance unless engaging someone set up to tow commercially.

 

I have literally just done that and am licensed and insured to tow from 1st May but this is about 1 hours towing and it's 90 hours cruising away from where I am so I don't think the OP has much choice but to commandeer help locally, or otherwise bow haul the boat.

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Many (most?) boat insurance policies don't cover towing, except in an emergency, so asking some one for a tow is asking for a lot. If anything goes wrong, then there won't be cover.

 

There is however, towing and towing. 

 

Routinely towing long distances on a long line like a motor tows a butty is a very different kettle of fish from breasting up a busted boat to move it a way up the cut to a yard or marina for repairs, but both would seem the same to an insurance company. 

 

Any accident happening whilst rescue-towing a short distance sensibly is quite likely to be trivial, i.e. a dent in the hull of a moored boat rather than any sort of total loss sinking, IMO.

Edited April 20, 2022 by MtB

[Captain Pegg]

34 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

There is however, towing and towing. 

 

Routinely towing long distances on a long line like a motor tows a butty is a very different kettle of fish from breasting up a busted boat to move it a way up the cut to a yard or marina for repairs, but both would seem the same to an insurance company. 

 

Any accident happening whilst rescue-towing a short distance sensibly is quite likely to be trivial, i.e. a dent in the hull of a moored boat rather than any sort of total loss sinking, IMO.

 

Agreed but I wouldn't class damaging a moored boat as trivial even putting the owner of the affected boat's feelings to one side. If the owner pursues a claim for repairs through their own marine legal protection insurance you would have no means of meeting that claim other than out of your own pocket because you have no liability cover for towing.

[David Mack]

50 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

It's almost impossible to have both boats covered by insurance unless engaging someone set up to tow commercially.

My insurance says I am not allowed to tow inflatables above a certain speed, but has no other prohibition on towing or being towed. So why wouldn't I be covered if doing either, as long as no money changes hands?

53 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

so I don't think the OP has much choice but to commandeer help locally, or otherwise bow haul the boat.

A lot of moored boats on the towpath side to pass, as well as having to leg it through Maida Hill Tunnel!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

34 minutes ago, David Mack said:

My insurance says I am not allowed to tow inflatables above a certain speed, but has no other prohibition on towing or being towed. So why wouldn't I be covered if doing either, as long as no money changes hands?

Do you mind me asking who your insurer is? All the ones I've had, where I have gone through the fine print have excluded non-emergency towing. Of course, we don't know if the OP has an inflatable boat. Come to think of it, they haven't specifically asked about a boat being towed at all. That is just our assumption, based on this being a boating forum. 

10 hours ago, Chirag said:

Hi anyone know who can tow me from little Venice to Camden 

So they may be wanting to try water skiing along the Regents Canal, or they could have a duff car on the road that needs towing between these two locations. 😀

[MtB]

10 hours ago, Chirag said:

Hi anyone know who can tow me from little Venice to Camden 

 

Or extending Jen's line of thought, taking the OP's post literally it appears he wants himself to be towed. Not a boat, car, trailer, hearse or anything else. 

[reg]

Try here 

http://www.londonboaters.org/

[BilgePump]

 

6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Come to think of it, they haven't specifically asked about a boat being towed at all. That is just our assumption, based on this being a boating forum. 

So they may be wanting to try water skiing along the Regents Canal, or they could have a duff car on the road that needs towing between these two locations. 😀

 

I've got waterski towline eyes on the back of mine, but would need a much bigger outboard and Londinium's too far away to be of help!

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

My insurance says I am not allowed to tow inflatables above a certain speed, but has no other prohibition on towing or being towed. So why wouldn't I be covered if doing either, as long as no money changes hands?

A lot of moored boats on the towpath side to pass, as well as having to leg it through Maida Hill Tunnel!

 

You may be covered but that's only part of the whole requirement and does a lack of explicit prohibition infer that specific cover for towing is in place?

 

If no money changes hands it's certainly more straightforward but is the towed boat covered when under the command of A.N. Other and is the public liability element of either boats' insurance still valid when towing?

 

My assumption would be that you don't have full cover unless you had specific written confirmation from your insurers, and if each boat has a different insurer that's potentially an issue in itself.

 

 

OK, so bow hauling is maybe not feasible and the OP probably knew that.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[Laurie Booth]

13 hours ago, Chirag said:

Hi anyone know who can tow me from little Venice to Camden 

Try river canal rescue

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

My insurance says I am not allowed to tow inflatables above a certain speed, but has no other prohibition on towing or being towed. So why wouldn't I be covered if doing either, as long as no money changes hands?

A lot of moored boats on the towpath side to pass, as well as having to leg it through Maida Hill Tunnel!

As with  number of boaters, I have my insurance through GJW Direct and on their terms and conditions towing is specifically excluded from cover,

".... Are there any restrictions to cover?

! If you use the vessel for purposes other than private and pleasure use you must let us know
! We pay up to the value of the vessel and contents as agreed and noted on the certificate.
! Any item of contents in excess of £1000 has to be declared and all items of contents covered away from the
vessel have to be declared
! You or another competent person will be on board and in charge of the vessel at all times when underway
! You cannot use your vessel to tow another vessel unless customary or in an emergency
! Deductions will be made from the cost of replacement outboard motors, sails, running rigging, covers and
canopies depending on age of lost or damaged item......"

 

(https://www.gjwdirect.com/media/1367/gjw-direct-narrowboat-and-barge-ipid-1021.pdf)

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

! You cannot use your vessel to tow another vessel unless customary or in an emergency

In the cases when I have towed I would argue it is customary for a former carrying narrowboat to tow an unpowered former carrying boat. 

And I assume that that exception is specifically there to cover that sort of situation.

 

It does however raise the question as to what constitutes an "emergency". Is snatching a boat off which has gone aground, but which is not in any immediate danger nor blocking the canal an "emergency" situation.  Or towing a broken down boat, which is not under threat at the time, but could be a target of vandalism if left in a known dodgy urban area? These are both situations where many boaters would be prepared to offer a tow if asked.

Edited April 20, 2022 by David Mack

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

In the cases when I have towed I would argue it is customary for a former carrying narrowboat to tow an unpowered former carrying boat. 

And I assume that that exception is specifically there to cover that sort of situation.

 

It does however raise the question as to what constitutes an "emergency". Is snatching a boat off which has gone aground, but which is not in any immediate danger nor blocking the canal an "emergency" situation.  Or towing a broken down boat, which is not under threat at the time, but could be a target of vandalism if left in a known dodgy urban area? These are both situations where many boaters would be prepared to offer a tow if asked.

It’s the view of the insurer that matters and I think if the first your insurer knew of your towing of boats was when you made a claim for loss while towing you’d be very much on the back foot.

 

Similarly an insurance company is likely to interpret an emergency as one where loss would clearly have been incurred prior to the arrival of fully insured professional assistance. That’s not a lot more than towing a stricken boat away from a weir or a boat away from a fire.

 

The bottom line is you need to know what your insurer thinks before and not after the event.

[BWM]

Not an unusual sight near London!

[Ronaldo47]

My understanding is that, in Victorian times, "emergency" seems to have just meant something that had happened (emerged) unexpectedly and needed to be dealt with promptly,  and did not necessarily mean that what had happened involved danger.  So towing someone who you came across  who had just broken down, would be an emergency (an event that had just emerged), but giving someone a pre-arranged tow, would not. Away from home at present so I can't consult a (proper) dictionary. 

[Alan de Enfield]

emergency

/ɪˈməːdʒ(ə)nsi/

 

 

1. 1.

   a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.

   "personal alarms for use in an emergency"

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

It’s the view of the insurer that matters and I think if the first your insurer knew of your towing of boats was when you made a claim for loss while towing you’d be very much on the back foot.

At the time the boat's insurance was with a well known company (that no longer insures historic boats), and the policy was arranged by their specialist inland waterways expert, who in a previous existence had developed a policy specifically for historic and carrying boats. So the insurer would have had a hard time arguing that they knew nothing of such things. 

I agree that in current times and with another insurer things may not be the same.

[robtheplod]

What about temporarily fitting some sort of outboard motor - would a beefy electric one do??

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

What about temporarily fitting some sort of outboard motor - would a beefy electric one do??

Oars!

[Tacet]

7 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

My assumption would be that you don't have full cover unless you had specific written confirmation from your insurers, and if each boat has a different insurer that's potentially an issue in itself.

 

OK, so bow hauling is maybe not feasible and the OP probably knew that.

 

Do you have specific written confirmation from your insurers that full cover is in place when bow hauling?

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

Do you have specific written confirmation from your insurers that full cover is in place when bow hauling?

Yes, I do.

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Do you have specific written confirmation from your insurers that full cover is in place when bow hauling?

 

Good point. Unless specifically listed as an exclusion I'd assume I was covered for towing or being towed. 

 

12 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Any accident happening whilst rescue-towing a short distance sensibly is quite likely to be trivial, i.e. a dent in the hull of a moored boat rather than any sort of total loss sinking, IMO.

 

I'm not so sure. Even on a canal there's the possibility and risk of girding (or girting) when communication between the two skippers breaks down. It's happened to professionals with far more experience than most people on this forum and may be at least part of the reason why some canal boat insurance companies exclude towing.

 

 

https://knowledgeofsea.com/girting-of-tug/#:~:text=Girthing,differing parts of the world.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by blackrose