Today's new newbie - barge houseboat

[Slow and Steady]

20 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Then there is no obligation for the broker to take the boat off the market.

 

Under the usual contract terms just arranging a survey does not in any way secure an obligation on the part of the broker.

 

You also cant really arrange a survey on a boat upon which you haven't shown a commitment to proceed.

All good points - it's the no dickering after the survey and you can only pull out without loosing the deposit if the work would cost more than the deposit leaves a bad taste.

Maybe before paying the deposit take your "mate who knows about boats" (the surveyor) for a look around and test things.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

All good points - it's the no dickering after the survey and you can only pull out without loosing the deposit if the work would cost more than the deposit leaves a bad taste.

Maybe before paying the deposit take your "mate who knows about boats" (the surveyor) for a look around and test things.

 

The surveyor will still want paying for their time though.

 

If going that route one just needs to take somebody who knows about boats and willing to do it it for a few beers.

[Slow and Steady]

11 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The surveyor will still want paying for their time though.

Less than loosing a 10% deposit

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Slow and Steady said:

Less than loosing a 10% deposit

 

Possibly true but the biggest issue that a potential buyer faces is an issue with the hull.

 

Which isnt going to be spotted by somebody 'walking around the boat'.

 

[Slow and Steady]

Whatever. 

[john.k]

If there are clauses in the contract you dont like,line them out ,and initial the deletion......Then return the contract..............there is a very good chance they are soo hyped about getting rid of the titanic (before it goes under) for actual readies,and not having to part exchange an Austin A40 ,independentally valued at ten fousand nicker.

[LadyG]

41 minutes ago, john.k said:

If there are clauses in the contract you dont like,line them out ,and initial the deletion......Then return the contract..............

Yep, I read the second page of something that looked quite like waffle for a course I was be signed up for by a potential employer, they need me to have this qualification, but it turned out I was expected to pay £100 if we parted company within three months.

I just did not tick that box, they were not happy, but gave me the job anyway, I think I stayed for about two weeks. For sure the course cost them next to nothing, just two hours of attendance to get a certificate. I never got the certificate when I left, scammers.

They even advertised the pay wrongly to attract  more attendees! 

Edited May 11, 2022 by LadyG

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Whatever. 

 

That's as may be.

 

The issue here is if somebody isn't prepared to follow the generally accepted procedure the broker is highly likely to be able to find somebody that is. It's very much a sellers/brokers market at the mo so buyers may not always be in a position to call the shots about how the purchase procedure is followed.

 

That's just how it is.

 

 

[Slow and Steady]

15 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

That's as may be.

 

The issue here is if somebody isn't prepared to follow the generally accepted procedure the broker is highly likely to be able to find somebody that is. It's very much a sellers/brokers market at the mo so buyers may not always be in a position to call the shots about how the purchase procedure is followed.

 

That's just how it is.

 

 

Yes and no - most brokers do not have such onerous conditions. Still, what do I know I've bought 2 boats and sold one all deals done without surveys. I found sellers like how that speeds up the sale enough to simply knock off that £5k or whatever it is that the survey would provide the info to haggle with. Cut to the chase with £5k to spend putting things right. Before you say it, yes you must be confident the hull is in good order and there we will disagree. I would say a good one is obvious and if I didn't feel confident without getting it out of the water I'd walk away anyway.

[PabloC]

Thanks again for the replies.

 

The seller and broker replied with a very genuine response. They're adding back in the notice of defects section, and made it clear I'll have the right to withdrawl under any circumstances. 

 

I've requested either a lower deposit, or none at all - shall see what they say. 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Yes and no - most brokers do not have such onerous conditions. Still, what do I know I've bought 2 boats and sold one all deals done without surveys. I found sellers like how that speeds up the sale enough to simply knock off that £5k or whatever it is that the survey would provide the info to haggle with. Cut to the chase with £5k to spend putting things right. Before you say it, yes you must be confident the hull is in good order and there we will disagree. I would say a good one is obvious and if I didn't feel confident without getting it out of the water I'd walk away anyway.

 

No need to get so narly matey.

 

Yes of course you can do that too. I wasn't suggesting other wise. Many have bought boats on here without any survey. It's not unusual.

 

I would say in lots of cases a survey is of dubious value anyway, but only if you 'know' boats and are experienced. The OP as far as can read doesn't fit that category.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Thanks again for the replies.

 

The seller and broker replied with a very genuine response. They're adding back in the notice of defects section, and made it clear I'll have the right to withdrawl under any circumstances. 

 

I've requested either a lower deposit, or none at all - shall see what they say. 

 

Sounds good, and unusual but never the less if that is written down go for it.

 

A buyer of our boat lost his deposit because our broker (Rugby boats) had quite stringent terms under which a buyer could withdraw. It didn't include 'I cant find a mooring' and 'there are some rips in the captains chairs', he was obviously just a time waster and it cost him dearly.

 

The boat hadn't even been surveyed when he withdrew his offer.

[Slow and Steady]

14 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

No need to get so narly matey.

 

Yes of course you can do that too. I wasn't suggesting other wise. Many have bought boats on here without any survey. It's not unusual.

 

I would say in lots of cases a survey is of dubious value anyway, but only if you 'know' boats and are experienced. The OP as far as can read doesn't fit that category.

I simply meant that I have no experience of boat surveys.  But I have experience of surveyors in general and agree that their value is dubious.

 

I certainly didn't "know boats" when I bought my first one further than getting drunk once and falling asleep on one. I just looked at loads, read a lot (on here!) and went with gut instinct. The one I bought just stood out.

 

 

Honestly I believe some people are simply too lazy to educate themselves and think paying a surveyor saves them the bother. Kind of like judging the condition of a car as good because it has an MOT. 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

I simply meant that I have no experience of boat surveys.  But I have experience of surveyors in general and agree that their value is dubious.

 

I certainly didn't "know boats" when I bought my first one further than getting drunk once and falling asleep on one. I just looked at loads, read a lot (on here!) and went with gut instinct. The one I bought just stood out.

 

 

Honestly I believe some people are simply too lazy to educate themselves and think paying a surveyor saves them the bother.

 

 

My compromise would be just to get a hull survey if I was ever buying again. (which is extremely doubtful.)

 

Everything else I fee confident about looking at myself or with the help of a knowledgeable mate/family members  (or if desperate asking on here and getting 15 different opinions ..)

 

I would also (with the owners permission) do far more dismantling than most surveyors are prepared to do. If he'd just looked under the bed/mattress our surveyor would have spotted a potentially expensive problem developing (leaking poo tank) and allowed us to get a bit more off the price too.

[Captain Pegg]

I believe the 10% clause is from a BMF standard form of contract. I think it’s very common and is a means of striking a fair middle ground between buyer and seller in the event of something unforeseen.

[gatekrash]

18 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I believe the 10% clause is from a BMF standard form of contract. I think it’s very common and is a means of striking a fair middle ground between buyer and seller in the event of something unforeseen.

I think you're right. Mine had that in when we bought, and we certainly haggled post survey for some stuff (minor BSS stuff like CO alarm missing), along with a discussion about a couple of things non-BSS but marked as priority by the surveyor and there wasn't any real issue with the seller honouring the cost of repairs.

[Captain Pegg]

2 minutes ago, gatekrash said:

I think you're right. Mine had that in when we bought, and we certainly haggled post survey for some stuff (minor BSS stuff like CO alarm missing), along with a discussion about a couple of things non-BSS but marked as priority by the surveyor and there wasn't any real issue with the seller honouring the cost of repairs.

I had almost exactly the same experience. The offer is of course binding - and technically ultimately enforceable - so the seller needs some protection in that respect.

 

In reality fairness usually prevails.

[Slow and Steady]

One way of looking at it is that if you agree to buy something at it's advertised price, haggling later could be seen as rather unfair.

 

I had that when I sold my house - it was priced lower than the max because it was not perfect. Someone "won" sealed bids then came round with his builder buddy trying to knock £40K off. Well, no, it was priced for what it was, not for how perfect it could be if you spent £40k on it!

 

Maybe I'd react the same to being haggled after a survey - sorry mate if you want to knock £5k off to fix everything, I'll have to add £5k on first so the price reflects a boat with no faults.

Unless the seller claimed in writing it was fault free - only then you would have cause for discussion.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Captain Pegg]

36 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

One way of looking at it is that if you agree to buy something at it's advertised price, haggling later could be seen as rather unfair.

 

I had that when I sold my house - it was priced lower than the max because it was not perfect. Someone "won" sealed bids then came round with his builder buddy trying to knock £40K off. Well, no, it was priced for what it was, not for how perfect it could be if you spent £40k on it!

 

Maybe I'd react the same to being haggled after a survey - sorry mate if you want to knock £5k off to fix everything, I'll have to add £5k on first so the price reflects a boat with no faults.

Unless the seller claimed in writing it was fault free - only then you would have cause for discussion.

I think that’s the way it’s intended to be used.

[enigmatic]

41 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

One way of looking at it is that if you agree to buy something at it's advertised price, haggling later could be seen as rather unfair.

 

I had that when I sold my house - it was priced lower than the max because it was not perfect. Someone "won" sealed bids then came round with his builder buddy trying to knock £40K off. Well, no, it was priced for what it was, not for how perfect it could be if you spent £40k on it!

 

Maybe I'd react the same to being haggled after a survey - sorry mate if you want to knock £5k off to fix everything, I'll have to add £5k on first so the price reflects a boat with no faults.

Unless the seller claimed in writing it was fault free - only then you would have cause for discussion.

But you typically agree to buy something with "subject to survey" in the contract, and the point of the survey is to find undisclosed faults. You buy a boat in the expectation that it has a hull in adequate condition and the solar system works, unless the ad says "price reduced to account for work needed to hull" or the "solar panels" line in the ad says "need installing with new MPPT controller"

 

Yeah, if someone comes round and says "these scratches in the paintwork... my surveyor tells me a repaint would cost $xxxxx" you tell them to bugger off because the scratches were there for all to see and the timing, type and colour repaint is entirely the next owners' concern. But if a vendor doesn't tell people what the faults are their expectations of stuff working, not needing imminent replacement and not being a BSS fail are reasonable enough

Edited May 11, 2022 by enigmatic

[MtB]

10 hours ago, Slow and Steady said:

Yes and no - most brokers do not have such onerous conditions. Still, what do I know I've bought 2 boats and sold one all deals done without surveys. I found sellers like how that speeds up the sale enough to simply knock off that £5k or whatever it is that the survey would provide the info to haggle with. Cut to the chase with £5k to spend putting things right. Before you say it, yes you must be confident the hull is in good order and there we will disagree. I would say a good one is obvious and if I didn't feel confident without getting it out of the water I'd walk away anyway.

 

 

I negotiated £9k off my last purchase in return for buying it on the nail with no survey. 

 

Seller was delighted to 'just sell it' without all the dicking about, as was I to so buy it. 

 

Having it out of the water a year later revealed a hull in virtually 'as new' condition on a 15 year old boat. Lucky!!! 

[Slow and Steady]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I negotiated £9k off my last purchase in return for buying it on the nail with no survey. 

 

Seller was delighted to 'just sell it' without all the dicking about, as was I to so buy it. 

 

Having it out of the water a year later revealed a hull in virtually 'as new' condition on a 15 year old boat. Lucky!!! 

Here it can take literally months to get a slot to take a boat out + arrange a surveyor - then the haggling etc. Saying here's the money right now, no survey, what's your bank details - it's a winner for both parties. When I was a lad waving £10 notes and saying "here's the cash, now" was always good for low offers on cars.

[TheBiscuits]

28 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

When I was a lad waving £10 notes and saying "here's the cash, now" was always good for low offers on cars.

 

Must have been a while back if you could buy a working car for a tenner ...

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Must have been a while back if you could buy a working car for a tenner ...

 

Dun this before. My first car was two tenners for an A35 with a year's MoT....

 

Into which I stuffed a 1,100cc Midget engine, great fun! 

 

 

[cuthound]

Had the BSC inspection on my boat yesterday. The examiner is also a surveyor.

 

He said the surveying side of his business was increasing madly, not to potential buyers, but to people who have recently bought a boat without survey. Apparently having bought the boat they then get  worried and commission a belated survey.

 

Absolute madness as he has had to give several people bad news about their hulls.