Today's new newbie - barge houseboat

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Thanks, that's really helpful!

The boat has one radiator in the bedroom.

I'll look into an eberspacher, and possibly a blown hot air system. 

 

sorry, just to clarify - the immersion heater will be the cheapest way of heating water, unless I had the diesel stove on which could heat both water and air?

 

 

 

There are good reasons why blown hot air systems aren't common on narrowboats. One is space for ducting in a limited width. Another is that -- as Alan says -- they heat up fast, but this also means they cool down fast, as soon as the heater/blower stops so does the heat. Diesel boilers heating radiators do take longer to warm up but they also take longer to cool down after the boiler turns off, just like with a domestic system, so with a modern unit designed to do it you can burst them on and off (like a boiler at home) and keep temperature variations in the boat down. And the fans tend to mean that electrical power consumption for a blown hot air system is considerably higher than a pumped hot water system, which doesn't matter if you're running off a shoreline but does to some people if you're out cruising.

[mrsmelly]

43 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Nice 100 boat marina here in Rufford = £2060 for 60ft.

I moved from a large double fronted victorian house - my elec, cooking and heating costs went down 90%. my licence compared to rates went down 40%. My commuting costs went down 100% because I retired, my alcohol & food costs went down 95% when I got divorced because my ex was a fat greedy drunken slob. And toilet paper - my god, what do women do with it all? 

 

Going to be a different equation for everyone isn't it? There's no one size fits all here, it's apples and oranges but with rising diesel prices and the cost of generating your own electric I doubt there's much cost difference between a cheap marina and CCing.

Not an amicable divorce I take it? 🤣

[TheBiscuits]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This is why you should NEVER use electricity for heating (in any form -  boiling the kettle, electric fire, oil filed radiators or immersion heater etc) unless you are plugged into the shoreline.

 

Electricity from your batteries should be used for small appliances such as phone chargers, computers, lights and pumps.

 

Oh dear, I'm doing it all wrong then.

 

I very, very rarely have access to a shoreline (once or twice per year for a few days), and I use an electric kettle and my immersion heater.

 

I must reconsider my approach immediately.

 

Do you think I should remove some solar panels as well as the lithium battery bank?  

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Oh dear, I'm doing it all wrong then.

 

I very, very rarely have access to a shoreline (once or twice per year for a few days), and I use an electric kettle and my immersion heater.

 

I must reconsider my approach immediately.

 

Do you think I should remove some solar panels as well as the lithium battery bank?  

 

 

 

Sarcasm does not become you !

 

You have the skills and knowledge to be able to install a suitable system (We also use an electric kettle and a microwave, and an air-fryer)

 

Please remember who the replies are being aimed at ; a newbie who has never been on a boat and was initially looking at buying a non-movable widebeam

 

Hi all, here's today's new post of newbie questions - hope you can provide advice.

I'm looking at an opportunity to move onto the water on a unpowered barge conversion - it has a residential mooring at a marina, unable to be moved due to size. 

 

He has now moved onto looking at NBs but still does not have the knowledge and experience to realise the differences between using electric on a boat and in a house. He is also in work so unable to freely cruise 

 

......at the moment I'm fixed to a lecturing job as well ..........

 

Maybe it would be more constructive to the newbie if you could tell him what he needs to do (costs, equipment etc) to be able to use those appliances taking into account his circumstances.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Guest]

17 hours ago, PabloC said:

Thanks, that's really helpful!

The boat has one radiator in the bedroom.

I'll look into an eberspacher, and possibly a blown hot air system. 

 

sorry, just to clarify - the immersion heater will be the cheapest way of heating water, unless I had the diesel stove on which could heat both water and air?

 

 

 

Blown air works relatively well in the confines of a caravan or motorhome, it heats up much more quickly than our Alde wet central heating system. It can work well in a small boat too.

 

But for a larger boat it would not be my system of choice. The hose lengths required mean the heat losses can be significant and at the extreme ends of the pipework they run out of 'puff'.

[PabloC]

Hi. I've just come back from a second viewing. I took these two photos. Is this condition normal?

 

Slight rusting in the gas locker but only speckles. 

 

Thanks again

(hopefully the photos works as I'm on a mobile).

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Hi. I've just come back from a second viewing. I took these two photos. Is this condition normal?

 

Slight rusting in the gas locker but only speckles. 

 

Thanks again

(hopefully the photos works as I'm on a mobile).

 

 

The bottom of our gas locker was as bad as that, probably worse when we sold our boat. As long as its not corroded through it's relatively easily fixable. Especially if you get somebody else to do it at a cost.

 

@matty40s prepared, treated and re painted ours in readiness for the sale of the boat. Sorry but Ive lost the images showing what a good job was done.

 

(He might still have them but he seems to no longer post on here).

 

Edit - oh hang on its not the gas locker is it?.

Edited May 4, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[Alan de Enfield]

Engine bay looks nice and clean and tidy, but I've never had an 'underfloor' looking that bad. Are the 'hairy bits' carpet breaking down ? There looks to be some roofing felt under the ballast as well - ideal for keeing the water trapped. I'd not be happy with that level of corrosion.

 

If proceeding I'd make sure the surveyor has a good look.

[PabloC]

That was under the bed. 

 

(Sorry short reply, still on my mobile)

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, PabloC said:

That was under the bed. 

 

(Sorry short reply, still on my mobile)

 

There is no floor, bare steel and breeze blocks under the bed ?

[PabloC]

Sorry my mistake this was under the floor.

 

The photo attached now was under the bed. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, PabloC said:

Hi. I've just come back from a second viewing. I took these two photos. Is this condition normal?

 

Slight rusting in the gas locker but only speckles. 

 

I'd say yes it's commonplace on boats under about £40k. 

 

Once you start climbing out of the bargain basement boats you should expect better. 

 

 

[PabloC]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

but I've never had an 'underfloor' looking that bad.

I'd not be happy with that level of corrosion.

That's a bit worrying.

I did intend on having a survey, but questioning if its worth going that far.

 

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I'd say yes it's commonplace on boats under about £40k. 

 

Once you start climbing out of the bargain basement boats you should expect better. 

I guess its whether its commonplace and will cause me issues down the line

[cuthound]

15 hours ago, PabloC said:

That's a bit worrying.

I did intend on having a survey, but questioning if its worth going that far.

 

I guess its whether its commonplace and will cause me issues down the line

 

Whether it is worth it depends on the price of the boat and how easy access is to treat the rust.

[David Mack]

Almost every steel narrowboat you find for sale will have the inside of the shell steelwork covered up by the insulation and cabin fitout. So apart from those boats which have been stripped out for refitting, or those with the odd lift out floor panel, you have no idea how well the steelwork was originally protected, or what condition it is now in. And since the shell interior is unmaintainable, how well the rest of the boat has or has not been maintained is not much of a guide to its condition.

So just because this boat looks a bit iffy, don't assume the rest are fine.

All you can really do is rely on a surveyor's thickness measurements taken from the outside.

[Alan de Enfield]

But that is where floor hatches are useful, you can at leat see if the hull has huge sheets of mm's thick flaking rust. or, if the botton just has a slight tinge of red-rust, or even, if it has been preserved by bitumin during the build.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

or even, if it has been preserved by bitumin during the build.

On boats old enough to be in the under £40k bracket, even a baseplate which was well protected at the time of build will be rusty by now.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

On boats old enough to be in the under £40k bracket, even a baseplate which was well protected at the time of build will be rusty by now.

 

 

Like this you mean?

 

 A piece of the base plate replaced a few years ago on one of mine.

 

 

[PabloC]

Hi all, the latest ...

 

The seller (through a private broker - not a marina) has accepting an offer and survey is penciled in.

I've been sent a contract that asks for a 10% deposit, that states if work relating to BSS or steelwork with a cost to repair of over this 10% is needed or if the boat is un-insurable, then I can back out and get refunded. There's nothing about any cost of repairs that don't total the 10% being deducted from the agreed price. Would any damage to the hull be classed as un-insurable? how about if the boat requires blacking (which it will within the next year) - is this something to negotiate on?

 

I've attached the contract below with sensitive info taken out.

 

I've seen past receipts with the owner's name, the owner has included their address in the contract, I've searched the owner's email address and found work profiles - so I'm fairly happy she is genuine. So far the broker has also been very straight with me and I've seen two previous BSSs.

 

Any thoughts? Thanks

[Slow and Steady]

Clause 4 is a bit catch-22? You have been given the opportunity to inspect and accept with no come backs, yet you have to agree to this and pay up before they let you have it professionally surveyed?

Maybe talk to your surveyor and get them to complete an in the water equipment survey and negotiate price dependent on that survey before you pay up the deposit, that would cover everything but the hull, then come back for the hull survey. Otherwise if the survey after deposit shows up something serious but under 10% you don't have any redress.

Never been a fan of non-returnable deposits on second hand unchecked stuff, it seems like a con to me.

Basically they are saying anything short of overplating you are stuffed and have to buy it anyway. I might even walk away faced with terms like that!

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Slow and Steady said:

Clause 4 is a bit catch-22? You have been given the opportunity to inspect and accept with no come backs, yet you have to agree to this and pay up before they let you have it professionally surveyed?

Maybe talk to your surveyor and get them to complete an in the water equipment survey and negotiate price dependent on that survey before you pay up the deposit, that would cover everything but the hull, then come back for the hull survey. Otherwise if the survey after deposit shows up something serious but under 10% you don't have any redress.

Never been a fan of non-returnable deposits on second hand unchecked stuff, it seems like a con to me.

 

 

I agree, Clause 4 seems highly unreasonable to me.

 

My advice to the OP would be to either buy a different boat, or come up with his alternative own contract which is fair and reasonable and see if they will accept that.

 

 

[PabloC]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

I've been sent this from a contract used by ABC Leisure Group in Alvechurch, which seems more reasonable? Also, arranging and paying for surveyor/boat yard should indicate I'm serious about taking this further in my mind.

 

Following the survey, the Purchaser may, at his/her sole discretion, by written notice to the Broker, either: 5.2.1 reject the Vessel outright; or 5.2.2 reject the Vessel but offer to proceed with the purchase ...... (a) to rectify specific listed defects or deficiencies in the Vessel or the Inventory before Completion; or (b) to a reduction in the Purchase Price to enable the Purchaser to rectify such defects or deficiencies after Completion.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Thanks for the replies. 

 

I've been sent this from a contract used by ABC Leisure Group in Alvechurch, which seems more reasonable? Also, arranging and paying for surveyor/boat yard should indicate I'm serious about taking this further in my mind.

 

Following the survey, the Purchaser may, at his/her sole discretion, by written notice to the Broker, either: 5.2.1 reject the Vessel outright; or 5.2.2 reject the Vessel but offer to proceed with the purchase ...... (a) to rectify specific listed defects or deficiencies in the Vessel or the Inventory before Completion; or (b) to a reduction in the Purchase Price to enable the Purchaser to rectify such defects or deficiencies after Completion.

 

 

 

 

 

Those are the RYA contract terms - but - be aware of section 8 (return of deposit)

[PabloC]

Thanks Alan, I'm currently replying to the broker/seller as I'm not happy. I'm suggesting that a survey at my expense should be enough to demonstrate my interest.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PabloC said:

Thanks Alan, I'm currently replying to the broker/seller as I'm not happy. I'm suggesting that a survey at my expense should be enough to demonstrate my interest.

 

Then there is no obligation for the broker to take the boat off the market.

 

Under the usual contract terms just arranging a survey does not in any way secure an obligation on the part of the broker.

 

You also cant really arrange a survey on a boat upon which you haven't shown a commitment to proceed.