Today's new newbie - barge houseboat

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Sinkings are usual locking accidents. Fire is also a source of total loss, there are several every year.  Sinking is unlikely to be an issue on a static liveaboard boat, it does happen but its usually self inflicted.

If it never moves it is probably sat on the bottom anyway, sinking would involve maybe 3ft of water in the boat at worst case!

 

I think it is massively overpriced for the boat, its an old hulk anyway no engine, been chopped about, no heritage value.

Most of the cost is the mooring I think. And that you cannot own! Where could you take it if the marina threw you out? It doe happen, I have been thrown off before for arguing about fees. 

[PabloC]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I seem to remember that the last time they were published (before Aquavista took them over) they were around the £10,000+ per annum

lol! this is a funny joke....

 

I really does depend on cost of mooring. Theres also this wide beam at the same location, https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/94662434#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media1 that I'd move up to Northolt and a cheaper mooring, either leisure and work out a general local route of movement or a Pied-à-Terre mooring (not heard that term before - seems to be in the middle of leisure and residential) http://www.willowtree-marina.co.uk/moorings/pied-a-terre.php

But considerably cheaper than Packet marina. 

 

22 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Looks pretty cool for "somewhere to live" that's a bit different IMO.

I missed my opportunity to live and work on a boat when I was younger (wife said no chance). Like the OP I could have worked from anywhere. I regret that, I should have divorced earlier.

I wouldn't be too put off personally, because of the area/resi mooring I think you'd sell it on ok, but that's the rub - you won't have any security and you might just find £20k of that sale price is going to the mooring provider to allow it to stay there for the sale and who knows how long after. This would be my only real concern - if they decided to chuck you off the mooring you would be in a very awkward situation.

I also wouldn't worry about fully comp, if it sinks they'll have a get-out clause along the lines of you not maintaining it in floaty condition anyway.

Thanks, it's this thats making me even consider this move now. I have few ties except the job, a flat sale, the location is great for me and with Crossrail opening this year, house prices will sky rocket with commuters now able to cross London in 30 minutes. With the location being within 5 minutes of that line, I'm hoping that may rub off on the value of this boat. 

 

Would there be a possibility of the marina providing a guarantee that they'd not throw me off for a set period? 

 

21 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Sinkings are usual locking accidents. Fire is also a source of total loss, there are several every year.  Sinking is unlikely to be an issue on a static liveaboard boat, it does happen but its usually self inflicted.

Squeezing this boat through the lock may cause a little damage..

Edited April 18, 2022 by PabloC

[Tracy D'arth]

15 minutes ago, PabloC said:

l

 

Would there be a possibility of the marina providing a guarantee that they'd not throw me off for a set period? 

 

Squeezing this boat through the lock may cause a little damage..

You are joking aren't you?

On a boat you has absolutely no rights of tenure, at all, ever. Consider that long and hard.

[Slow and Steady]

23 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Would there be a possibility of the marina providing a guarantee that they'd not throw me off for a set period? 

 

You can only ask and I would ask too, but you need that as a condition of sale so don't buy it and ask later! Though as Tracy says - you'd be lucky!

I'm one of the few on here that lives in a boat on a marina and never moves. Most people seem to think moving around is the whole point of it and it seems to really annoy them that some people just like living on boats. However tough tittie to them, static boats are a fast growing thing and just as valid as the leisure ones. No security here either but at least I have a working engine if push came to shove. You MUST be mentally prepared for that and in your case if you did buy that boat finnacially prepared to have it moved on a lorry and start again, still with no security. The only people who get kicked out here are complete arseholes who think they are above the marina rules - crazy but most of the kicked out peeps get thrown out for refusing to keep their dogs on a lead! That is a good example of just how little security you have on a boat. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, PabloC said:

lol! this is a funny joke....

 

C&RT auction off their moorings thru a subsidiary called 'Waterside Moorings' "London" moorings in nice spots regularly make £15,000 per annum.

 

You are not thinking of moving onto a boat beacuse it is cheap are you ?

 

There is one here at £7,800 (But is is only for an anorexic boat, fat-boat moorings are more expensive.

 

Abbot's Wharf L1 :: Waterside Moorings

Edited April 18, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed, but if he is working on the boat and has £1000's of pounds worth of equipment, computers etc for his consultancy business which he cannot afford to lose it may not be in his best interest.

 

Some people are more risk averse than others.

 

In which case comprehensive boat insurance probably doesn't cover it.

 

It is the boat that I'd expect to be insured with comprehensive boat insurance, not the thousands of quids-worth of expensive electronic hardware the owner is keeping in it. The comprehensive bit usually means if the boat sinks and is a total loss, the value of the boat gets paid out although there may be a limited contents payout too. For contents insurance, read the terms of the insurance you might be buying.

 

Contents insurance however may not be available to TPI customers.

[PabloC]

26 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

You can only ask and I would ask too, but you need that as a condition of sale so don't buy it and ask later! Though as Tracy says - you'd be lucky!

I'm one of the few on here that lives in a boat on a marina and never moves. Most people seem to think moving around is the whole point of it and it seems to really annoy them that some people just like living on boats. However tough tittie to them, static boats are a fast growing thing and just as valid as the leisure ones. No security here either but at least I have a working engine if push came to shove. You MUST be mentally prepared for that and in your case if you did buy that boat finnacially prepared to have it moved on a lorry and start again, still with no security. The only people who get kicked out here are complete arseholes who think they are above the marina rules - crazy but most of the kicked out peeps get thrown out for refusing to keep their dogs on a lead!  

Thanks. Lorries etc are a scary thought, so perhaps theres too little control over the whole situation for it to be a good idea. More control over lifestyle is what I'm looking for - so long term in a marina but with a working engine at least there are options if things go tits up. I don't have a dog so no problem there with leads. (I won't make a joke about the girlfriend...)

 

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are not thinking of moving onto a boat beacuse it is cheap are you ?

 

There is one here at £7,800 (But is is only for an anorexic boat, fat-boat moorings are more expensive.

Thanks, there are three I've seen in West London currently none are ideal.

I'm not looking for necessarily a cheap life on a boat, but a life of controllable expense - no car at some point, solar powered electric to some degree, reducing council tax costs as much as possible. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by PabloC

[GUMPY]

21 minutes ago, PabloC said:

I'm not looking for necessarily a cheap life on a boat, but a life of controllable expense - no car at some point, solar powered electric to some degree, reducing council tax costs as much as possible. 

Buy a house

Excluding purchase price it costs me less to live in a house in Nth Devon than it did to live on a boat on a mooring just North of London.

My council tax here is under half what I was paying for the mooring and licence in 2018.

Estimated yearly electric cost will be in single figures I might even make money on my solar export.

Gas I am having to pay, no need for a car ( I do have three) as there is a free (I'm old) bus every 20mins at the top of the road.

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Loddon

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, PabloC said:

I'm not looking for necessarily a cheap life on a boat, but a life of controllable expense - no car at some point, solar powered electric to some degree, reducing council tax costs as much as possible. 

 

Buy a house too.

 

If council tax bill of a couple of £k a year is troubling you, forget boating. Whichever way you cut it, widespread opinion is it costs £5k year to keep a boat on the water, and this can be lumpy. £2-3k for years on end then a couple of £8k bills out of the blue. Look through the old threads to see this argued out in detail. 

 

Living aboard with no car is no different from living in a house with no car. Generating your own electricity makes house leccy seem dirt cheap.

 

Boating can be a cheap lifestyle but only by letting the boat degrade into a wreck and by CCing and possibly going 'stealth' so you can avoid buying a license.

 

 

 

[Slow and Steady]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Buy a house too.

 

If council tax bill of a couple of £k a year is troubling you, forget boating. Whichever way you cut it, widespread opinion is it costs £5k year to keep a boat on the water, and this can be lumpy. £2-3k for years on end then a couple of £8k bills out of the blue. Look through the old threads to see this argued out in detail. 

 

Living aboard with no car is no different from living in a house with no car. Generating your own electricity makes house leccy seem dirt cheap.

 

Boating can be a cheap lifestyle but only by letting the boat degrade into a wreck and by CCing and possibly going 'stealth' so you can avoid buying a license.

 

 

 

Though of course it's a bit of a winner if you don't have the cash for a house or the income to secure a mortgage. My eldest paid rent for years to pay off someone elses mortgage for them because despite being able to pay that rent, he could not get a mortgage that's premiums were far less than the rent he was paying. Catch 22 for a lot of people even if they have a deposit. A boat fits into that gap of owning your abode - even if it's a dicey situation in many ways at least it's yours.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Slow and Steady said:

Though of course it's a bit of a winner if you don't have the cash for a house or the income to secure a mortgage. My eldest paid rent for years to pay off someone elses mortgage for them because despite being able to pay that rent, he could not get a mortgage that's premiums were far less than the rent he was paying. Catch 22 for a lot of people even if they have a deposit. A boat fits into that gap of owning your abode - even if it's a dicey situation in many ways at least it's yours.

 

In the OP's case they are considering a boat on the market for £99k iirc, so that much cash in one's back pocket easily gets a mortgage on a small house much the same size as a boat, in, say, Reading or Newbury, both in easy reach of London.

[Slow and Steady]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

In the OP's case they are considering a boat on the market for £99k iirc, so that much cash in one's back pocket easily gets a mortgage on a small house much the same size as a boat, in, say, Reading or Newbury, both in easy reach of London.

It was a general comment on why people opt to live in boats. Often they can afford a sizeable deposit, but still can't get a mortgage for the rest.

Yes £90k is a large deposit but the op has said he's more interested in the boaty life and any imaginary savings are secondary. Where would you rather live? In a £90k house on an estate in Reading or the location this and many other boats are situated? For the price of my own boat I'd be looking at ... nothing around here - even the smallest property is double the price and frankly "not nice".

[PabloC]

I appreciate the replies - they're really helping work through the possibilities. 

 

I guess what it comes down to is, is a move onto the water more or less expensive than what I'm currently paying on mortgage, council tax and utilities? - the costs directly associated with the property. As MtB says, car costs etc stay the same. 

 

Even if a move didn't give me any significant financial gains, the lifestyle is one I'd enjoy - or at least like give a go. Obviously, I have no first hand experience of the expected costs, but taking energy bills alone - surely they can't be more than the 5K I paid on the flat last year?

 

[Bee]

Looks like an old mud hopper, the front  seems to have gone and the back has become the front, Probably at least 50 years old, very difficult to motorise, the mooring issue is a major problem, if the marina was sold (and they do change hands) then you have no security whatsoever. If it was mine I would reckon I would value it at about half the asking price and without a mooring, just as a boat, it has no real value at all. However..... if you spent that money on a narrowboat you could get a very good boat, probably still have a mooring problem but the value would still be in the boat. If you were to spend that money on a sea going sailing boat you could go round the world, if you were to spend that money on a small barge in Europe you could go all over the canal system and if you were to put the money towards a house then that makes sense too. So there's a few options but a bastardised mud hopper might not be the best. Good luck.

[Slow and Steady]

6 minutes ago, PabloC said:

I appreciate the replies - they're really helping work through the possibilities. 

 

I guess what it comes down to is, is a move onto the water more or less expensive than what I'm currently paying on mortgage, council tax and utilities? - the costs directly associated with the property. As MtB says, car costs etc stay the same. 

 

Even if a move didn't give me any significant financial gains, the lifestyle is one I'd enjoy - or at least like give a go. Obviously, I have no first hand experience of the expected costs, but taking energy bills alone - surely they can't be more than the 5K I paid on the flat last year?

 

£100/week energy costs? Seriously? Crikey, you're really burning through something there! If it's electricity for anything other than heating (which you'd do differently in a boat) you are going to struggle getting enough power for your lifestyle.

 

There are many ways and levels of luxury to boat living. My son and I live on a 60ft narrowboat in a marina and your energy bill would cover well over half of our entire cost of living - mooring fees, licence, insurance, heat and power, food. Seriously. We ARE cheap skates though and focussed on this.

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You are joking aren't you?

On a boat you has absolutely no rights of tenure, at all, ever. Consider that long and hard.

 

That might be different in the case of a proper residential mooring.

[Mike Adams]

90K for some old dredging barge. Things really have gone nuts. Never buy anything like that - if you lose the mooring you have a huge liability. Remember small is beautiful. A narrowboat can go anywhere and much easier to find a mooring in the south east. As said previously that money will buy you a very nice motor yacht!

[PabloC]

12 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

£100/week energy costs? Seriously? Crikey, you're really burning through something there! If it's electricity for anything other than heating (which you'd do differently in a boat) you are going to struggle getting enough power for your lifestyle.

 

There are many ways and levels of luxury to boat living. My son and I live on a 60ft narrowboat in a marina and your energy bill would cover well over half of our entire cost of living - mooring fees, licence, insurance, heat and power, food. Seriously. We ARE cheap skates though and focussed on this.

Sorry, half wrote that, went to answer the door and came back to write something different. 15K a year for everything. 

 

Can I ask roughly what that cost on energy bills? I think this is the sticking point, marina or CCing locally are possible where I am but I'm feeling this impending doom of winter costs.

 

21 minutes ago, Bee said:

Looks like an old mud hopper, the front  seems to have gone and the back has become the front, Probably at least 50 years old, very difficult to motorise, the mooring issue is a major problem, if the marina was sold (and they do change hands) then you have no security whatsoever. If it was mine I would reckon I would value it at about half the asking price and without a mooring, just as a boat, it has no real value at all. However..... if you spent that money on a narrowboat you could get a very good boat, probably still have a mooring problem but the value would still be in the boat. If you were to spend that money on a sea going sailing boat you could go round the world, if you were to spend that money on a small barge in Europe you could go all over the canal system and if you were to put the money towards a house then that makes sense too. So there's a few options but a bastardised mud hopper might not be the best. Good luck.

Thanks - it really was the first one that got me thinking, so not completely set on it. Food for thought though about the other options for the same money.

Obviously I don't want to spend more on the purchase than I have to, and as you suggest if there are better options it would be silly to spend the money for the sake of it. I have seen 60K boats that look extremely good.

 

 

[GUMPY]

24 minutes ago, PabloC said:

taking energy bills alone - surely they can't be more than the 5K I paid on the flat last year?

How much?

My total static* expenditure on the house (3 bed detached) is way less than that.

 

* Council tax, water, gas, electric, etc

[PabloC]

11 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

90K for some old dredging barge. Things really have gone nuts. Never buy anything like that - if you lose the mooring you have a huge liability. Remember small is beautiful. A narrowboat can go anywhere and much easier to find a mooring in the south east. As said previously that money will buy you a very nice motor yacht!

Thanks, I really appreciate the guidance early on. 

 

On paper, how does this look? http://www.willowtree-marina.co.uk/brokerage/Image files/Honey Badger.pdf

 

Thanks for the help, I appreciate some of these questions have probably been asked many many times.

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, PabloC said:

15K a year for everything. 

You could pay that for just a mooring in London, with no security of tenure

Edited April 18, 2022 by Loddon

[PabloC]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

How much?

My total static* expenditure on the house (3 bed detached) is way less than that.

 

* Council tax, water, gas, electric, etc

yeh, sorry. I forgot what I wrote when I came from answering the door.

15K in total costs associated with the flat. 

[Slow and Steady]

55 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Can I ask roughly what that cost on energy bills? I think this is the sticking point, marina or CCing locally are possible where I am but I'm feeling this impending doom of winter costs.

 

It was an untypical warm winter and we are skinflints - £150 on solid fuel which is our only heating. Nothing on kindling by burning old jetty wood being replaced here. We do have diesel central heating but we never use it - it's good, but too expensive.

£400 on elec - we have a full size fridge, 2 computers and a washing machine. We do not have hot water on tap - use the marina showers.

£120 on gas for a full size cooker/oven - we cook everything from scratch and use the oven a lot.

Bear in mind we are 2 blokes - add a women you'll double those costs or treble them or even more.

I think you could safely regard those figures as a minimum for a caveman lifestyle.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Slow and Steady]

53 minutes ago, PabloC said:

yeh, sorry. I forgot what I wrote when I came from answering the door.

15K in total costs associated with the flat. 

Pretty meaningless as we don't know how much of that is mortgage payments.

And, as if often said, your house/flat is an asset with increasing value. I "made" £400k just by living in a house for 20 years, after mortgage payments taken off AND I lived in it too! That ain't going to happen with a boat but I'm old and don't care any more. One thing is for sure, I won't ever be able to buy another house even if I wanted to, so I make sure I don't want to.

[ditchcrawler]

I think it slightly optimistic to think that the solar on the boat will heat the water for most of the year

"whilst her solar panels provide sufficient energy to power lighting and water heating for the majority of the year. "