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Attitudes towards hirers


Robster123

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15 minutes ago, zimzim said:

I finally decided to blink first and took what felt like a last-second opportunity to put my 65ft boat onto the 'wrong' side and pass starboard-to-starboard.

 

 

In such a situation it's never a bad decision to slow right down, and probably stop.

 

 

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21 hours ago, OldGoat said:

A similar sort of behaviour occurs on the roads - in that case there's little real opportunity to remonstrate with the other party. Have a look at the driving instructor videos on Utube...

 

The late, great Stirling Moss had the ultimate put down for bad drivers.

 

He would approach them when they next stopped at traffic lights, open his wallet and offer them money to buy a driving lesson. 🤣😅

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37 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In such a situation it's never a bad decision to slow right down, and probably stop.

 

 

30 years ago, first time I took the boat out on my own, I too assumed it was the same as the roads. Was told politely by the first boat I met, and have never forgotten that the guy was nice anout it. Everyone's allowed to make their first mistake and be treated properly - I chased a hire boat down Grindley this morning to tell them (nicely) always to drop paddles when leaving. Dunno who educated the boat coming up who shut a lock gate in their face though. They'll learn too, just like I did.

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12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

30 years ago, first time I took the boat out on my own, I too assumed it was the same as the roads. Was told politely by the first boat I met, and have never forgotten that the guy was nice anout it. Everyone's allowed to make their first mistake and be treated properly - I chased a hire boat down Grindley this morning to tell them (nicely) always to drop paddles when leaving. Dunno who educated the boat coming up who shut a lock gate in their face though. They'll learn too, just like I did.

 

One thing we often encountered was hire boats who closed gates even when there was a boat ready and waiting or approaching.

 

When asked they inevitably told us that they had been instructed by the hire yard to always shut the gates behind them when leaving a lock. The bit about 'unless there was a boat waiting to come in' was either missed or not said.

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10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Then I pointed out politely that he had a pleasure boat licence and I have a roving traders licence.  By definition only one of us is a working boat ...

 

 

Excellent point, I'll use that "You only have a pleasure boat certificate" idea if I ever get that 'working boats have priority' crap from one! 

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

In such a situation it's never a bad decision to slow right down, and probably stop.

 

 

Yes, completely agree - i did slow right down (and gave what i thought were some pretty simple clear signals that he should move over!) but as you know, it comes down to that dilemma over whether to retain some forward motion and ability to manoeuvre, or whether to scrub off your speed, become a spectator and let matters unfold! I really think if i had stopped then he would have ploughed straight into me, trying as he was even by that point to squeeze through a non-existent gap between me and the towpath- he was a steerer with all of 3 minutes experience moving at quite a pace (and I think trying to maintain some kind of casual credibility with his passengers).

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1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

When asked they inevitably told us that they had been instructed by the hire yard to always shut the gates behind them when leaving a lock. The bit about 'unless there was a boat waiting to come in' was either missed or not said.

I have had exactly the same and Diana was at the lock. but he insisted he was shutting his gate, which she immediately opened again

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Nothing really to do with attitudes to hirers but since we have been on the Macc and Peak Forest, we have seen very few hire boats. Presumably with the Marple and Bosley restrictions they are being advised to go elsewhere. 

 

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Some years ago now we bought the hulk of Banstead off Roger Lorenz and needed to tow it back to Langley Mill. We took Meteor to house our teenage children and their friends so they would do the bow hauling of the two unpowered boats up the Cheshire locks. In the thick of the flight with Meteor and Banstead being bow hauled by the slave gang and my wife and I on Wyrd a lady who was lock wheeling for the first of the Easter Traditional Working boat gathering at Ellesmere Port came up to Wyrd and said as we were towing and they were a 'working boat'  we  should stop and let them past as we would be holding them up. Her boat was , she said, two or three locks down from the butties who were, on the double locks, one set behind us. Wishing to be as helpful as possible I explained that in no way was I prepared to let her through and split the tow but if they could catch us on the long ponds then they could of course come past. They didn't catch the slave gang and to the  people further up the flight who asked if we had come from Ellesmere Port we replied that, 'No, we hadn't but that there were a number of ' working boats' behind us.' We were late for the tunnel but the keepers seeing that we would fill the  towpath space available waved us through. We didn't see the lady again but perhaps they stopped to load in Stoke.

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9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Excellent point, I'll use that "You only have a pleasure boat certificate" idea if I ever get that 'working boats have priority' crap from one! 

 

 

Please do.  If the neckerchief gang aren't prepared to pay the extra cash for a trading licence they don't deserve any extra consideration.

 

It's probably worth mentioning that the business licence T&C's specifically state that they don't grant priority passage on the system.

 

He just deserved it! :D

 

If you have a business licence you are expected to wait your turn in the queue like any other boat.  You also don't have the right to overstay on a popular visitor mooring despite what many tell you ...

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As a boatyard operator, and the owner of historic craft, including butties, and pleasure craft, we fall into several categories, there are times where it is easier, when towing, if the situation allows to try and keep the butty behind the motor but if the pound is low or the cut is busy, then we would split the tow as the situation dictates. We assume no hierarchy on the cut, and if people are inexperienced we help where we can, just as others have helped us when moving a pair with just two of us. Also, hirers have just as much right to be on the cut as anyone. It winds me up hearing of stories of elitism on the cut. And, let's all be thankful that the shouty likes of the Reverend are no longer out and about. 

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17 hours ago, zimzim said:

I've always been surprised that hire boats do not have some very basic safety (and possibly etiquette) guidance on some sort of wall poster inside the boat. It wouldn't need to be too overbearing, but would help the inexperienced to avoid the simplest and some of the most dangerous mistakes.

 

Reminds me of an incident last Summer when I unexpectedly found myself in a surreal and increasingly disturbing game of chicken with one of those small open-sided day-boats coming in the opposite direction. As we approached one another, I moved over to the right in the usual way, only to find to my alarm that he repeatedly matched my manoeuvre and seemed intent on a head-on collision. I finally decided to blink first and took what felt like a last-second opportunity to put my 65ft boat onto the 'wrong' side and pass starboard-to-starboard. To my relief, he didn't mirror that final change of direction and we very narrowly avoiding what (especially for him and his family) would have been quite a memorable impact! Having gathered my thoughts, I politely enquired as we passed what he was thinking. He was most apologetic - he had literally only just left the hire base and 'didn't know what side to drive on' (and had assumed it was the same as his car). All ended in smiles and apologies. I don't know what instruction he can have been given, but it can't have been much!

 

When you hire a boat on the Skegness canal you are told to drive on the left....

I remember a memorable day in about 1975, when we (in our yogurt pot) followed Jaguar down the Oxford canal from Kings Sutton to Thrupp. They were a bit slow. We overtook them, then set the next lock, let them through, locked through and overtook them again in the next pound. Repeat several times... Great fun,

dsc_4049.jpg

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On 15/04/2022 at 16:00, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I find when I encounter male (and it usually is males) idiots like this I now blow them a very exaggerated kiss.

 

 

Do you do the same thing when it's a woman? In the case of the OP it's was a woman.

 

"as my wife went to open the gate, a woman ran up and told her to shut it so they could empty it for them to ascend - because they had priority over hirers!!"

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I once worked as a seasonal lock keeper. My observation is that 99% of people are wonderful and 1% are plain unpleasant. You can’t pigeon hole boaters either, the bad ones inhabit all types of boating. You won’t change them. They exist in all walks of life too. If they weren’t stealing a lock from you, they’d be stabbing you in the back at work or stealing your sun bed while on holiday in the Med. It’s just the way they are, they usually end their days bitter and lonely. 

Edited by Withywindle
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That reminds me of the chaos I once observed in Blisworth Tunnel.  An oncoming boat kept moving to his left whenever he encountered another boat.  He'd been told that boats overtake by moving over to the left.  He'd assumed that this also applied to him when he was passing a boat as well. :)

Incidently, it should be remembered that some ex-working boatmen and women hire boats.  These have way more experience than most of us leisure boaters.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Incidently, it should be remembered that some ex-working boatmen and women hire boats.  These have way more experience than most of us leisure boaters.

 

 

Many years ago I was chatting with a bloke on a hire boat and it emerged he was the captain of a naval warship! 

 

He said the warship was much easier to handle than a narrowboat, as all he did was stand around issuing orders. When he tried that on the hire boat, nothing happened and he had to do it all himself...

 

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A few years ago a retired skipper of the QE 2 volunteered with a couple of canal organisations in Scotland and not only did he have to sit and pass an MCA bostmasters test to be in charge of a trip boat with more that 12 passengers, he had to do the RYA Inland Waterways helsmans test to skipper boats with under 12.

He took it in good part ! 

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42 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Do you do the same thing when it's a woman? In the case of the OP it's was a woman.

 

"as my wife went to open the gate, a woman ran up and told her to shut it so they could empty it for them to ascend - because they had priority over hirers!!"

 

No, because of the potential for mis interpretation.

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20 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Incidently, it should be remembered that some ex-working boatmen and women hire boats.  These have way more experience than most of us leisure boaters.

 

I've always said to people that automatically criticise hire boats that someone on a private boat could have just bought it a week before having no experience where the person on the hire boat could have been hiring regularly for the last 15 years.

 

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I think hire boaters are great, at least the majority anyway. 

Most of the ones that passed me, or that I met at locks etc, were in a good mood, most of the crew would be smiling and the kids would be larking around in the bow, or helping out at the locks. 

I always got through locks faster when hire boaters were around- in this respect they were more useful than gongoozlers. 

The problem with the casual gongoozler is that he is a creature of very variable quality. Many can- with some effort- be press ganged into helping out at locks (some in fact jump at the chance), but just as many of them display the greatest scepticism at any proposal that they should be personally involved in the working of the lock. One wily old chap gave out a series of medical excuses before the first sentence of my sales pitch was even finished. 

He could hardly have been a day over 90, and could clearly walk (although at no great pace, and only with the aid of a stick, I would guess)- and yet here he was, shirking out of helping a poor innocent boater at a lock.

I dont know how these layabouts sleep at nights.

 

But hire boaters and their teenage children are all as keen as mustard - effectively an inexhaustible supply of keen labour, who can be employed at lift bridges and locks in order to make the passage of the singlehander much smoother and easier. 

In fact, in my opinion (which I haven't shared with any of them), working locks and bridges for me IS the purpose of them being on the cut. What other possible reason could these creatures have for whizzing about everywhere and hitting every other boat they pass?

They aren't all angels, of course. There are the odd exceptions, usually teenagers who lurk in the bow with their ipads, and raise a sceptical eyebrow in response to my cheery requests for assistance, but thankfully the parents generally put the little blighters straight, and a couple of surplus crew always seem to be scraped out from the hire boat interior when needed. 

If I were a religious man, I might almost feel that hire boaters were sent from Heaven to transform my cruising into the grand and leisurely experience that I so clearly deserve it to be. 

I observed one hire boat a few hundred yards ahead of me last summer, zig zagging from side to side as they cruised down along a long straight section of canal.

There was one boat moored ahead of them on this long section, and they somehow contrived to hit it as they careered about the cut.  

At a safe distance behind, I was able to see the funny side of the thing, but my amusement was not shared by the owner of the boat they hit, and he gave them quite a tirade, as they explained to me when I caught them up at the next lift bridge. 

'Oh just ignore him' I said sympathetically, as their teenage kids laboured at the bridge mechanism.

'Some of these boaters are just born grumpy. Shocking really, how they let them hang about the place, shouting at people.'

 

If I had chanced to speak to the outraged victim, of course I would have sympathised and agreed that all hire boaters are a menace to decent people on the canals, and should be rounded up and jailed. Because sympathy is important, even when you don't mean it.

 

 

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 I’ve always found hirers to be ok, as I always cut them some slack. As my train of thought is that they have spent a couple of thousand on the holiday and if like myself, your family only went on holiday 2 weeks in the Summer and worked all year for it, you looked forward to it for months. So they’re no problem as I’m on my boat 24/7 and never in that much of a rush, so just  want them to enjoy it.

  They’re not all perfect agreed, then again neither are full time boat owners. with speed and situation awareness They are often more chatty and not up their own ar$e like what I’m seeing with the new breed of the older middle class boaters, who have just bought a new £200k plus boat and set up a YouTube/Instagram channel to tell the world about their new fabulous life onboard. So I always give them a wave and a little bit of help if needed but treat them as just someone with a boat. 

Edited by PD1964
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