Coal fired to end?

[zenataomm]

End of the line? Vintage train journeys at risk as coal supply fails

I guess this sounds the end for the historic steam powered narrow boat currently bearing the name President.

[Rose Narrowboats]

Based on trials on some std, narrowgauge and miniature railways, I imagine President et al. will steam well enough* on the likes of Ecoal, Widlfire or Trevithick Ovoids.

 

* They probably won't stop it hitting things though....

[TheBiscuits]

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/apr/10/vintage-train-journeys-uk-at-risk-as-coal-supply-fails

 

The article itself.

[Ray T]

6 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

Based on trials on some std, narrowgauge and miniature railways, I imagine President et al. will steam well enough* on the likes of Ecoal, Widlfire or Trevithick Ovoids.

They probably won't stop it hitting things though....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Ray T

[Sea Dog]

29 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good to know that, in these challenging economic times, shares in Armco only get stronger for taking the odd knock... 

[jonathanA]

For some reason I never tire of watching that and it always makes me smile...

 

I'm sure it's a lot harder than it looks.

[MtB]

49 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

Good grief, this is the first time I've seen this.

 

Cringeworthy and embarrassing. Who is that steering?

 

 

 

 

 

Not Posh Tim, surely?

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

Cringeworthy and embarrassing. Who is that steering?

 

 

 

Is it the steerer or the drivers fault?

[davidg]

1 hour ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

Based on trials on some std, narrowgauge and miniature railways, I imagine President et al. will steam well enough* on the likes of Ecoal, Widlfire or Trevithick Ovoids.

 

* They probably won't stop it hitting things though....

 

I wish I shared your optimism. Can't find the link right now but there is a lovely quote form the fireman on a railway (Amerton maybe?) trialling ecoal at the weekend to the effect that the plastic bag it came in would burn better than ecoal. Wouldn't fancy romping up Sylfaen bank with the regulator in the roof courtesy of my son,* which we did yesterday, on something like that😁

 

*I did say we had plenty of steam so get it used.

[nbfiresprite]

16 minutes ago, davidg said:

 

I wish I shared your optimism. Can't find the link right now but there is a lovely quote form the fireman on a railway (Amerton maybe?) trialling ecoal at the weekend to the effect that the plastic bag it came in would burn better than ecoal. Wouldn't fancy romping up Sylfaen bank with the regulator in the roof courtesy of my son,* which we did yesterday, on something like that😁

 

*I did say we had plenty of steam so get it used.

 

Up on the the South Tynedale narrow guage Railway on the old Haltwhistle to Alston branch line (close 1976). They have been testing the use of sawdust logs on their Hunslet 0+4+2 tank engine 'Green Dragon'. Noted on my visit, that extra logs had to be carried in the guards van as the bunker on the engine could carry a fuel days fuel if coal but not with sawdust logs, the fireman had to work harder stoking the fire with logs on the climb back up to Alston. The Barry railway is doing tests using blazer logs with a small standard guage tank engine on their line.

[Rose Narrowboats]

1 hour ago, davidg said:

 

I wish I shared your optimism. Can't find the link right now but there is a lovely quote form the fireman on a railway (Amerton maybe?) trialling ecoal at the weekend to the effect that the plastic bag it came in would burn better than ecoal. Wouldn't fancy romping up Sylfaen bank with the regulator in the roof courtesy of my son,* which we did yesterday, on something like that😁

 

*I did say we had plenty of steam so get it used.

 

I'm aware there are decidely mixed results with "fake coal" on proper (and even flea gauge) railways, but I suspect the boiler in President will be easier to manage and more tolerant of anything other than welsh steam coal than a loco boiler - plus it'll give the butty a purpose carrying all the bl**dy ash!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Rose Narrowboats

[magnetman]

To be fair hysteric narrow boats would be much better off being electric powered. Steam was a slightly dodgy replacement for horses. The closest equivalent to horse drawn is electric propulsion. 

 

One of the cool things about full length unconverted narrow boats is there is plenty of room for the solar panels and the batteries. 

 

 

[MtB]

There is no reason as far as I can tell, not to run a steam engine in something like "PRESIDENT" on steam generated by a diesel-fired boiler.

[ditchcrawler]

59 minutes ago, MtB said:

There is no reason as far as I can tell, not to run a steam engine in something like "PRESIDENT" on steam generated by a diesel-fired boiler.

Or compressed air with a big diesel driven air compressor

[Dorlan]

The Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway trialled using "fake coal" on their first running day on March 13th.
The following extracts are taken from the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway Carriage & Wagon Dept's blog...

 "The slightly longer than expected close season has still absolutely zoomed by, and it was great to have trains back running today. It was quite busy too with all four locos out either on trains or on test runs after their winter maintenance. Foremarke Hall came down mid-morning:"

 

"Today was also the first trial of the new 'ovoid' coal from Neath. A big lorry load turned up on Wednesday:"

 

"And it was just as well that we had all four locos out as initial trials of the ovoids fell rather short of satisfactory. Dinmore Manor missed its crossing point at Winchcombe and had to wait for Foremarke to help take it to Cheltenham and back:"

 

"Dinmore came off on the train's return to Toddington, and then at some point Foremarke was swapped out with P&O too!"

 

"4270 seemed to do ok but still wolfed a whole bunker down, normally that would see it through 2 days:"

 

"While at the end of the day P&O had completely run out having eaten its way through a tender's worth, and Dinmore, having filled up with some better black stuff, now played the part of rescuer to take the train back again!"

 

"What a palaver! Thankfully we've got enough Welsh to see us through the races without any drama, after that, who knows..."

[Guest]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Good grief, this is the first time I've seen this.

 

Cringeworthy and embarrassing. Who is that steering?

 

 

 

 

 

Not Posh Tim, surely?

 

 

 

Oh to be perfect, and never ever misjudge something and be a perfect boater just like you.

 

Or at least when one does balls up hope somebody with a mobile isn't on hand ready to plaster it all over the internet.

[GilesMorris]

3 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Oh to be perfect, and never ever misjudge something and be a perfect boater just like you.

 

Or at least when one does balls up hope somebody with a mobile isn't on hand ready to plaster it all over the internet.

Once, just once, in eleven years I backed my (sail)boat into dock absolutely perfectly. There was nobody around. On the other side of my dock a much larger, more expensive and better-crewed boat made a real dog's breakfast of docking just once (that I know of). There was a large crowd of people enjoying the afternoon on the dock as it swayed with the impact.

 

I do not judge skill based on a small sample.

 

[Guest]

Just now, GilesMorris said:

Once, just once, in eleven years I backed my (sail)boat into dock absolutely perfectly. There was nobody around. On the other side of my dock a much larger, more expensive and better-crewed boat made a real dog's breakfast of docking just once (that I know of). There was a large crowd of people enjoying the afternoon on the dock as it swayed with the impact.

 

I do not judge skill based on a small sample.

 

 

We hired a boat last week, a wheel steered one.

 

On leaving the hire boat yard I clipped the bow of another boat with my stern.

 

I did return and apologise but despite it being quite a thump no damage was done to either boat. The other skipper appreciated me coming back.

 

If anybody on here has never got something wrong, ever, I wouldnt believe them even if they claimed it.

[Ronaldo47]

At the end of the 19th century, the old Great Eastern Railway converted a number of their engines to burn the heavy oil residue from their plant for making the gas oil then used for carriage illumination.They had previously been dumping it in the River Lea until the river authority made them stop, and it was a cost-effective way of getting rid of it. Apparently it was successful enough for them to continue the practice long after they had largely switched to electric lighting. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[nb Innisfree]

First time steering a narrowboat I soon got the knack and was inch perfect throughout a weeks hire, later efforts were hampered by a strange phenomenon called wind 🙄

[Derek R.]

Yes, we can all make mistakes, but 'Friends' seem to excel. This is amplified when on public display, there are lots of videos of privately owned boats - and hire boats getting into more serious trouble. But the behaviour of the PRESIDENT crew on that occasion is incompetent bordering on dangerous.

 

Coal. Welsh steam coal is great stuff. But I know from past experience, and despite its excellence, it involves a lot of cleaning of soot. . Commonly available 'house' coal is being phased out. It's a mistake. This carbon zero target will cause untold problems with all sorts of power issues - for little or no benefit. Ovoids are fine on multi-fuel stoves, the flue is cleaner, the ash fine with no clinker (nothing left to fill in the drive pot holes!)

 

Kerosene as an alternative has gone from 52p per litre to £1.23 almost overnight. 'Red' diesel will be for farm use only, road going tractors already need to use white (DERV).

 

Electric 'fans' will have charging issues, and the solar 'farms' are prone to fire hazards few have consider. An example of this on a small scale, is the catching fire and exploding of one bus standing alongside four or five others in the far East. White smoke begins to emit, then an explosion. The whole bus is engulfed in flame setting fire to three others beside it. Four vehicles written off. Several fire extinguishers were used, it was like pouring petrol on a fire. Another; two chaps riding and electric scooter bursts into flame as they rode along. They crash to the tarmac, the passenger receiving severe burns. The fire was not extinguished with extinguishers, it kept re-igniting. Another video of the inside of someones living room where a small electric stand-on scooter was being recharged from a mains socket. A Father, small boy and pet dog were present. Suddenly the scooter bursts into flame, the dog yelps and runs off, the Father unplugs to charger but to no avail. He grabs the child and evacuates, the fire consumes the room. Another similar even happened in a motorcycle showroom/workshop. A bike on charge flares up whilst machines were being manoeuvred around. The manager manages to get the on-fire bike out before a bigger disaster occurs. The bike is a total loss in the courtyard. Look up lithium iron battery fires.

 

Solar panels. Can they catch fire? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/solar-panel-blazes-ignite-safety-fears-60mvb3265

 

The bottom line about energy, is that we will all be made to suffer through the wallet. Zero carbon (a complete nonsense, as all plant life and mammalian life is made up from carbon) will involve zero life. This drive to reduce Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere on the premise that it 'warms' the planet to unacceptable levels - is bunkum.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Derek R.

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

This drive to reduce Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere on the premise that it 'warms' the planet to unacceptable levels - is bunkum.

 

 

Or so you say, without putting forward one shred of evidence.

 

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

Lithium battery fires are like cellulose nitrate film fires: once started, everything necessary to sustain combustion is present in the thing itself, so the usual fire extinguishing technique of excluding air will not put it out. You need to reduce the temperature low enough to stop the reaction, which for lithium batteries usually means total immersion in a tank of water. The alternative is to wait until it burns itself out and ensure that the heat does not damage the surroundings. 

 

A colleague who had been a research chemist developing lithium batteries at GEC in the 1980's told me that his lab had been a detached building located in the middle of the site's former sports field. When they had the inevitable fire, all that the fire brigade could do was ensure that wind-borne flying embers did not start fires elsewhere on the site.  The building was simply left to burn itself out.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Lithium battery fires are like cellulose nitrate film fires: once started, everything necessary to sustain combustion is present in the thing itself, so the usual fire extinguishing technique of excluding air will not put it out. You need to reduce the temperature low enough to stop the reaction, which for lithium batteries usually means total immersion in a tank of water. The alternative is to wait until it burns itself out and ensure that the heat does not damage the surroundings. 

 

A colleague who had been a research chemist developing lithium batteries at GEC in the 1980's told me that his lab had been a detached building located in the middle of the site's former sports field. When they had the inevitable fire, all that the fire brigade could do was ensure that wind-borne flying embers did not start fires elsewhere on the site.  The building was simply left to burn itself out.

True for lithium battery chemistries like LCO and NCA which are commonly used in EVs (and cellphones) because of their high energy and power density.

 

Not true for LFP (LiFePO4) which are pretty much always what is used on boats (and are beginning to appear in some cars), these are lower energy/power density but cheaper and *much* safer, fires are pretty much unknown.

 

https://dragonflyenergy.com/types-of-lithium-batteries-guide/

[john.k]

I see an item on BBC last couple of days that a big opencut coal mine had been approved somewhere in UK just recently......no pics yet of six busses parked in the dragline bucket.