Charges or fines ?

[waterworks]

On 10/04/2022 at 22:16, frangar said:

Sadly its idiots with attitudes like the OP has that leads to signs like this being needed in the first place...by and large 30 years and more ago those that lived on the cut followed the few rules that existed and everyone got along just fine....in the last few years the self entitled have arrived and think they should have everything without either paying for it or thinking of others. 

My post only posed the question if the charges or fines were lawful and my opinion that they are not, I never once stated or encouraged anyone to moor or not moor anywhere, stay or overstay or anything else. 

 

if you get upset whenever CRT is challenged thats your problem not mine, this is how things remain lawful. 

[Tuscan]

As I understand it CRT are able to charge for a service, mooring for a period up to 14 days is a right under the Acts and not a service. Bona fide navigating in accordance with the Act is another right. Presumably they could charge for water and elsan disposal if they wish. 

[Momac]

58 minutes ago, waterworks said:

My post only posed the question ..............

Perhaps you should read your first post in which  you have stated you would not pay.

In that post you are  not asking any questions.

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, waterworks said:

My post only posed the question

 

MartynG is quite right, your OP posed no questions. Just contains statements that you would not pay the CRT charges and you think they they are unenforceable. 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, waterworks said:

My post only posed the question if the charges or fines were lawful and my opinion that they are not, I never once stated or encouraged anyone to moor or not moor anywhere, stay or overstay or anything else. 

 

if you get upset whenever CRT is challenged thats your problem not mine, this is how things remain lawful. 

Oddly, posting a question on an internet forum, even if accompanied by an opinion, is not challenging CRT in any way whatsoever. It's just standard social media fluff and smoke blowing.

Nor would actually having the balls to ask CRT to justify their actions be challenging them, either, though it might carry a small risk that one's mooring practices get watched a bit closer.

You challenge something in the courts, otherwise it's just blather and a bit of fun on here.

[Alan de Enfield]

On 10/04/2022 at 15:33, waterworks said:

What ever these are i would not pay them,

 

I cannot see a question here.

[waterworks]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Perhaps you should read your first post in which  you have stated you would not pay.

In that post you are  not asking any questions.

 

 

 

 

You need to read that reply properly and not edit it

 

" My post only posed the question if the charges or fines were lawful and my opinion that they are not"

[MtB]

 

Ooh excellent. We've derailed the whole thread into an argument about whether the OP contained a question or not.

 

I hold that it doesn't, as there are no question mark punctuations in the OP anywhere. Only statements.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Ooh excellent. We've derailed the whole thread into an argument about whether the OP contained a question or not.

 

I hold that it doesn't, as there are no question mark punctuations in the OP anywhere. Only statements.

 

 

You're right, of course. The first post is a series of statements, masquerading as "facts", and personal opinions. It's started sixteen pages of variegated squabbling, though,  so probably fulfilled the OP's intention.

[Momac]

If the OP should have asked would you pay £25 per night for a visitor mooring the answer is I have done so , in fact paid more than that ,  in a marina or harbour. I believe on the Thames  some moorings are chargeable. There is a pontoon at Kings Lynn that is chargeable. So the practice of paying to moor is well established as lawful

 

Would I pay to moor  at the location with the blue sign?  Probably not because I would move on after the free mooring period to avoid paying.

The real  intent of the sign and any other limited mooring signs  is that people move on after the free mooring period and give someone else the use of the mooring space .

 

I am happy to see mooring restrictions which are typically 48hrs in my locality as the majority of people do generally obey the rules and that means its rarely necessary to move to a different location due to the absence of a mooring.

 

 

 

[Higgs]

On 29/04/2022 at 07:23, MartynG said:

If the OP should have asked would you pay £25 per night for a visitor mooring the answer is I have done so , in fact paid more than that ,  in a marina or harbour. I believe on the Thames  some moorings are chargeable. There is a pontoon at Kings Lynn that is chargeable. So the practice of paying to moor is well established as lawful

 

At specific places or due to private ownership of land, against which a boat is moored. The principle is not established of mooring being an extra, and not included within the rights a CRT licence gives the holder. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Higgs

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

At specific places or due to private ownership of land, against which a boat is moored. The principle is not established of mooring being an extra, and not included within the rights a CRT licence gives the holder. 

 

 

Other than Llangollen and now parts of London. Where next.

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Other than Llangollen and now parts of London. Where next.

 

I guess those and other places are under pressure to at least generate some movement in traffic. But it isn't going to work beyond this need. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I guess those and other places are under pressure to at least generate some movement in traffic. But it isn't going to work beyond this need. 

 

 

Maybe Bath will be next. I have already read postings on Facebook for boaters wanting to pre-book moorings in several places including Chester

Edited April 30, 2022 by ditchcrawler

[Arthur Marshall]

6 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

At specific places or due to private ownership of land, against which a boat is moored. The principle is not established of mooring being an extra, and not included within the rights a CRT licence gives the holder. 

 

 

I think it's fairly well established. I can't moor for half a mile on the towpath at the top of Bosley, or at Nantwich for two. Because CRT charge people to moor there  and have done for years. And if they can charge by the year, then they can by the day. End  surely, of this discussion.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

At specific places or due to private ownership of land, against which a boat is moored. The principle is not established of mooring being an extra, and not included within the rights a CRT licence gives the holder. 

 

 

charging, and booking, is being established and seems to be accepted as a given by some.

And in time it’ll be said “it was always that way, CRT have charged for years, it must be right.”

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

charging, and booking, is being established and seems to be accepted as a given by some.

And in time it’ll be said “it was always that way, CRT have charged for years, it must be right.”

 

"Custom & Practice"

 

Custom and practice refers to an unwritten and implied contract term that relates to an unofficial practice within an industry or organisation that has become accepted as the norm

[waterworks]

On 14/04/2022 at 14:59, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There is no 'changing back' the laws still say that they must be displayed - it is simply that C&RT have said no need to display your licence as we can check from the registration number if you are licenced.

 

The fact that some boaters 'get away with' not displaying, registration number, name and licence  is down to the lack of enforcement (again).

 

Any boater not 'displaying' should feel the full force of the law.

 

 

 

 

 

But its not all about 'income' anyone can be a "busy fool", you only need to look at the giving figures of costs against income (that you have so often provided) to see why sometimes it is better to have a lower income and still end up with more 'disposable income'.

There is no " full force of the law" in this respect, it's a minor bylaw offence, with a paultry fine.

 

Not sure what it is nowadays I doubt it's still £5 ,maybe 25 to 100 quid ?

 

Penalties
Penalties 57. Any person who offends against any of the foregoing Bye-laws
shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty not exceeding
FIVE POUNDS for each offence and in the case of a continuing
offence a further penalty not exceeding FORTY SHILLINGS for
each day on which the offence is continued after conviction
thereof.
For the purposes of this Bye-law a person shall offend against
any Bye-law if he
(a) does or fails to do, or
(b) causes or permits to be done or left undone anything the
doing of which is prohibited or required respectively by such Bye laws.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I can be fined in shillings for not displaying my license (because I never do) is just brilliant!

How many old pennies to a shilling?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I can be fined in shillings for not displaying my license (because I never do) is just brilliant!

How many old pennies to a shilling?

 

12.

 

Counting systems to the base 12 make FAR more sense than base 10, as any fule kno

[waterworks]

On 28/04/2022 at 23:51, Arthur Marshall said:

You're right, of course. The first post is a series of statements, masquerading as "facts", and personal opinions. It's started sixteen pages of variegated squabbling, though,  so probably fulfilled the OP's intention

https://www.lifehack.org/869079/how-to-stop-being-negative

[Momac]

 

22 minutes ago, waterworks said:

... a paultry fine.

Do you have to pay the fine in chickens or can you pay in eggs?

[MtB]

Just now, MartynG said:

 

Do you have to pay the fine in chickens or can you pay in eggs?

 

You crack me up....

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

12.

 

Counting systems to the base 12 make FAR more sense than base 10, as any fule kno

that’s bonkers 

So were there 144 to a £?

all based on egg counting 

 pennies and farthings

mad as tricycles 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

that’s bonkers 

So were there 144 to a £?

all based on egg counting 

 pennies and farthings

mad as tricycles 

 

I can see you weren't a maths teacher, lol!